What I guess I don't understand is why do people care how other people enjoy the game? Keep taking, tasking, keep defense, open field rvr, etc..... are all just different aspects of the game. Its a game, why not let people enjoy it the way they want without the need to say anything about it? Personally, I get more annoyed with the want to be "uber" guys who think it makes them "super cool" to put down other people for enjoying the game in a different way then they feel is the right way.

Sturlek wrote:

ZaiQQ wrote:>>"With a minstrel you can win vs anything 1v1."

Not only is this blatantly false (solo minstrels fall in 1v1's all the time, even the good ones), but now you're also limiting the discussion to solo minstrels, which are clearly not the only classes to solo task. Players using nearly every class under the sun (with the possible exception of healer-types) do solo and group guard tasks, and there are many good reasons why. And let's not forget that guard tasks frequently lead to 1v1 and small fights at contested keeps. You are also deliberately ignoring the fact that some classes, like minstrels, are designed to be efficient guard taskers, and taking away the incentive to guard task would be like taking away a spell or combat style from any other class's spec line.

Minstrels are heavy 1vs1 classes sturlek, plz don't deny it, they have enough instants and tricks up their sleeve to kill almost anything. Going from pet to speed to cc to even 2 different dmg types (ranged/melee).

They can addept their play style so that almost any class is at a disadvantage, they can kite tanks & push casters.

Sturlek wrote:

ZaiQQ wrote:>>Kill guards all you want, but rps shouldnt be given out like candy for killing guards. Killing a keep lord for taking a keep, actually has a point, takes time, has an impact on the realm. Killing guards does not."

I'm sorry, I thought we were comparing killing NPC guards to killing other players in Emain, not to killing keep lords. Both of the first two activities are equally useless as far as realm benefits go, so I can see why you would want to change the comparison to make killing guards look worse. So again, why should RPs be handed out for pointlessly killing players in emain and not for pointlessly killing NPCs in keeps?

Keep guards & keep lords should be on a different level indeed, taking a keep HAS realm effect (df & bonuses) killing 5 or 20 guards does not. Thus the system mentioned below is something I like.

RonELuvv wrote:I've said it before and I will say it again....

The gaurd tasks are not the problem. The problem is people doing what Ronia showed this particular individual doing, making a High RR player with doing the absolute minimal amt of actual PvP. I still say that gaurd tasks are a great thing for this server that allow for people fresh out of Thid to still get some RP's while they are still low RR as well as provide some supplementary RP's for those that play in more slow times.

In saying all that, it should be scaled dependant on RR. As an example:

RR1-4L9- 1250 rp's per solo task
RR5L0-5L9- 1000 rp's per solo task
RR6L0-6L9- 750 rp's per solo task
RR7L0-7L9- 500 rp's per solo task
RR8L0-13L0- 250 rp's per solo task

By doing this people can still use the task's as a way to gain RR's while their toons are lower RR, but as they gain in RR's the reward is reduced and hopefully pushes them to go into more traditional PvP.

It also still allow's for the higher RR players to still do an occasional task otw to RvR to increase the overall rp's on slow nights. For example, if Albs own Crim and I'm heading out to AMG on my ranger I can swing by and get an extra 250 rp's omw into Emain. Its not much, but if I do that 3 or 4 times it will add up to maybe make up for the lack of players.

I also agree with Holsten that group gaurd tasks should be revamped to be keep take tasks. Increase the reward to say 2000 rp's for taking a keep and maybe add a bonus on that for the lvl of keep.

Lvl 1-6 keep: 2000 rp's
lvl 7- 2200 rp's
lvl 8- 2400 rp's
lvl 9- 2600 rp's
lvl 10- 3000 rp's

By doing this people can still get good rp's while grouped and it would benefit your realm better overall by opening up DF. It would also prevent the people (myself included) from grouping up, opening up 4 keeps, and tasking back to back to back and getting 10-20k rp's in a few hours.

I like the basic concept here, however the scales are a bit rough to my liking *.
Also not only the keep level should matter but the gate level too since a level10 keep with level1 doors or a level1 keep with level 10 doors, I'd go for the first, less ram time.

*(keeps going from level 1 up till 6 the same rp :s, and reducing rp gain before 5L0
[some classes get 100% improve with their RR5 ability])

Implement rvr tasks like capture an enemy keep in a precise zone or defend one keep under siege.. that could be better than genocide guards all the time ^^

So low levels pugs/guilds can enjoy the rvr and make some "true" rps doing that

Because is useless to deny that you cant do rvr at a fresh 4L2 after thid.. or you raise the thid cap, or you must add other opportunities (like these new kind of task) to who dont have a guild group all days

Imho

I also started with lvl 48 and 4L2 with rvr on my bard, nobody cared. Hard way till rr7 (and no i joined MB with 7L1). But even when Flump Grp rushed me down 349x before i get rr7, i didnt surrender. Most of the Players here just need balls.
Caemmas Idea of special tasks sounds nice for lows, task cap to rr6 or 7 and special tasks till rr9 and we have a nice system.
Or: show tasked rps extra, that ppl see who is a tasker. Maybe the shame brings some ppl into rvr.

I agree with sonic, i didnt had any guild group with my warrior, and still have up to rr9, i played solo with my sb, getting zerged all day long, but still didnt gave up and keep playing it, ppl that are saying : we are low rr we cant compet, are just some whiner that dont even try to be better or dont even try to play emain seriously. I didnt said its not hard, but its not impossible, keep trying and try do your best instead of cry about realm rank of others ppl and give that excuse for justify this lame tasking

Orihiime wrote:i played solo with my sb, getting zerged all day long, but still didnt gave up and keep playing it, ppl that are saying : we are low rr we cant compet, are just some whiner that dont even try to be better or dont even try to play emain seriously.

Let say that the average rate of getting ganked is 8 times under 10 for everyone (it's an example):

- If you play 23 hours a day (a cyborg like you ), you will have 4 hours and a half of success
- If you play like 4 hours a day (a decent play time), you will have less than 50 minutes of success
- Then, if you play like 1 to 2 hours your stealth toon (I think the average time of people who are easily bored by camping/waiting, wasting pots, etc.), you will have less than 20 minutes of success = 1 fight, maybe 2 ^^

This demo is weird... ok

But the point I wanted to show is that players don't have the same playtime, schedule = chance to do RPs. So they tried to optimize these chance to change the "getting ganked rate". I can understand them, indeed.

Sonic1982 wrote:I also started with lvl 48 and 4L2 with rvr on my bard, nobody cared. Hard way till rr7 (and no i joined MB with 7L1). But even when Flump Grp rushed me down 349x before i get rr7, i didnt surrender. Most of the Players here just need balls.
Caemmas Idea of special tasks sounds nice for lows, task cap to rr6 or 7 and special tasks till rr9 and we have a nice system.
Or: show tasked rps extra, that ppl see who is a tasker. Maybe the shame brings some ppl into rvr.

Well, i understand your point, and thank you about your agreement for my idea, but i need to underline that now you are 10L6 now, and when you was 4L2 there was (i suppose, correct me if im wrong) less high rr around, and probably more low rank level groups around or pugs

And remember that suck 8vs8 with 0 kill after 2 time with the same high rr group (because there isnt any fresh/change of ppl in rvr zone since a lot) probably happen some ragequit and you must search another player etc. etc. but this is another story.. :p

I just wanted to bump this thread up since there has been so much debate about the current change. Now people can read again why these changes needed to happen. I would like to point out page 6 on this post when Blue states that he always envisioned these tasks as being a "bridge" to help players fresh out of Thid to get some needed RR's or when action is extrememly slow. Also, as was shown here by Trish and Blue the tasks were not implemented during 1.69.

I don't see how this change really helps, I mean it will only be a few months until someone complains about some other guy who's done nothing but taking keeps and has keep took his way to rr9 or such (throw in the usual mix of not enough player kills, avoids emain, etc). Then we will be back here again.

This is a pretty old server most people already have at least one templates 50, yet when there's 200+ people online you either don't see any action or only a handful of solos or a few small man groups. Maybe you should be focusing on how to get these 180ish people interested in pvping instead. There's enough poeple on for solid action if you can get them to stop crafting or perpectually rerolling for the bgs.

And in terms of changes, can we stay objective and unbiased please? Tasks, barrels, hasteners, weapon clusters, etc, aren't 1.69 patch yet some changes there was compromise with the player base and some weren't. Is it possible to stay consistent and either take everything out that isn't 1.69 or either make a compromise with the playerbase on all these changes so its handled consistently.

undefined wrote:I don't see how this change really helps

FIrst weekend was fun. Skirmishes here and there at keeps. Things have been pretty even.

Now.. you have insane battles where 4-5 fgs hibs will steamroller 3-4 fgs of mids.. or the albs will show up and do the same to either.
It's become a crazy zerg fest... and just in Emain now.

Only a few guilds claim keeps now and most of the keeps are at level 1.

Now this is great for the people who can consistently run large groups.. that's fine. It's what they want to do.

What's a solo or casual player to do? Go to Emain AMG and get zerged by rangers? Be lucky enough to get into DF when it opens?

thursa wrote:Go to Emain AMG and get zerged by rangers? Be lucky enough to get into DF when it opens?

Wasn't this what people complained about was happening as only RvR before we made this change?

Trishin wrote:

thursa wrote:Go to Emain AMG and get zerged by rangers? Be lucky enough to get into DF when it opens?

Wasn't this what people complained about was happening as only RvR before we made this change?

You ever try getting a keep take group on a stealth class? I've never seen any in them.

I would think the keep take zergs would take anyone over level 35, regardless of class. Its a zerg after all. I havent ran any yet, but when I do it will be open to anyone 35+ that wants to come along.

Also, I understand your thoughts on this Thursa, but what do you want? We complained that the population of RvR was horrible and was dying. We complained that tasking had taken priority to RvR and they needed to make it keep takes so it was at least RvR oriented. They made the change and so far its been a great change. I have noticed the same type of solo/small man action in Emain that was their before the keep take change, and now the casual players have access to join a zerg and get some fun easy action in other realms or by taking keeps on their own. Unfortunately there is no fix that will please everyone.

On a side note Thursa, I promise you that in the near future I will be finishing up my hunter. When that is done I will be going to Emain on my hunter and when there is tons of Hib stealthers (its not all the time, trust me, I play one) I will be leading a group to kill em all.

That is what I dont understand about the Mid and Alb stealthers as a whole. You guys complain about the # of Hib stealthers but you never group up and get rid of them. Death Row/Green Machine and others were horrible out there about 8 months ago. AMG police and a few other groups started showing up with a MoS bot and guess what? The problem went away. If you dont like the situation at AMG then get some buddies and be happy you have people to kill. Being on the other side of the fence I can tell you that it sucks when you get to AMG and see 4-5 Hib stealthers roaming around with no enemies to kill. Also, be lucky you didnt play when Black Adders camped AMG with their stealthers. You think having 4-5 Hib ranger/NS's around is bad, BA would camp AMG with 2+ fg's of stealthers and they would have a couple clerics in the box. That is not an exageration.

This thread is so May 2012

Still a very small sample size (< 2 weeks) to know what impact all the changes hold.

The zerg battles have been fun yes, but anyone who played live back before NF (2001-2003) will remember that zerging gets old fast if its the only show in town.

I think SI (ballpark eta please !) and adding in Heretics for Alb (base buffs) would be excellent however