Runis wrote:

Blue wrote:We could make it the way that guards in the camp only respawn at low traffic hours. When RvR peaks, once killed, the guards at the camp would not respawn.

Blue dont kill the solo RvR. Some of us cant play at LOW traffic hours, because we cant stay awake till 5 AM, like kids and some of them does. It would be really crap to log in the evening and having to waste every 15 minutes every reinc. Stealthers have to run stealthed most of the time, because the risk of getting killed by fg's is 99%, and that is loooong way to some RvR.

There is no thing as "fair" rvr like some said, if u dont like fighting near the camp so DONT, go take a relic or assault a keep.

If you disable the guard respawn, the camps will become the biggest camp spot, so we wont be able to teleport there anyway (i guess will be insta-death).

Disable guards respawn is not a solution. Those who want their "fair" rvr should stop hanging out around camps and use the rest of the RvR zone implemented. IMO should be 2 relics for every realm, live-like, and the RvR zone enlarged.

So u're whining about 15 minutes inbetween deaths and action, which means u haven't read the posts above (horses, boats, hastener speed, ....) but still u're asking for a larger RvR zone?

Telling me to just avoid camps is like (again, u didn't read the posts above) I said pointless and ridiculous because then u end up with the same result.


Sry but tbh 90% of the time u're posting something it's impulsive and making no sense whatsoever, doesn't really help you when u actually try to be serious, whenever that is.

nixian wrote:guess it could work but i am still gonna QQ when/if i find 0 enemies at lowpeak hours

If you find 0 enemies then, it's very likely that u'd find 0 enemies in the current RvR zone aswell.

I think removing the camp guard respawn at peak hours would be a very agreeable solution to all parties, it opens up more roamable area within the same map, and people can take a horse if they want to solo [runis, hop on a horse, stealth, gets you pretty much where the camp is at in a relatively similar time-frame]. People would still port and while it would be dangerous porting would still allow solos and/or a group another method of getting past the bridge if its camped [hence a group could port in and ambush a group thats attempting to camp the bridge].

Its quite an effective method for lessening how cramped agra is at peak hours. People will still get ganked for porting in at peak hours, but thats a risk they choose to run as there are several methods of travel available.

The solution would result in a healthier format during peak hours without hampering off hours, wasn't that the goal? For anyone who disagrees with Blue's suggestion what arguments do you have against it?

Well it still ends up making the RvR zone as small as it is because people can still port, at a risk, yes, but I'm sure that won't stop well-informed FGs or soloers.

Also, who are you going to hire to kill the guards?

They won't respawn, ok, but you'd have to kill them first for that, and I for one am not going to occupy myself with guardkilling everytime 'peak hour' kicks in, which tbh could be a very risky operation.

Another thing: what will determine 'peak hours'? What if there's still too many FGs roaming outside peak hours?

Then about the camps.. I don't even want to think about how many people that will get stuck in the main tents or how running trough from the inside could be abused.


I'm sorry but I just don't see why anyone would want to keep the camps and create more controversial issues instead of removing porting and camps all at once. Since that is the cause of the reduced RvR zone size. And as pointed out before, it's still possible to get there reasonably fast (horse/boat) and it's still possible to find a decent hideout or bottleneck for stealthers, even at lowpeak hours.
In the end, people will always look for enemies and some sort of natural meeting point will be created, like for instance most stealthers fight at HMG or AMG, hardly at MMG, while there's 6 MGs, those 2 are the ones with the most action by far, I don't see why it would be too hard to let people find a new place where inc is common.

I believe it's time to let camps and porting go, Uthgard's population is big enough to use the whole new RvR system that's implemented without the need for camps that have nothing do with it, and even prevent it from functioning like it should. There's just no need to hold on to the past.

Zarkor, Obviously you have never played non peak hours.
I play typically 8PM -12am CST US . Finding opponents is frustrating and near impossible especially if you are a non speed class. Sometimes I'll run around from gate to gate and not find 1 enemy for 1 to 2 hours.

I was trying to think of small changes that might get people to act differently that also would be relatively easy coding changes for the devs. they could be tried and removed easily if proven to be a big problem.

The best way to get people to act differently is put incentive on it. Example put a realm point bonus for kills in certain areas to spread people out more. Maybe 20% bonus for to Rp's for kills in the zones by Beno, DC and Bled.


Put crafting tables and crafting merchants in an open rvr area like by the milegate opposite of camp for each realm with a 50% crafting speed bonus. Set a minimum level for use like level 40(could only imagine the fun with this)

A couple realm hasteners that anyone could use in a few spots in Agra. Maybe make it cost 2bp to use.

Put incentive to people to come out and RvR during non peak times maybe a 20% RP bonus if less than 20 players in Agra.

Maybe something fun like have some roaming guards that can pop up anywhere in The RvR areas that give a little bit of RP's 400 or something like that. Make these maybe level 53 so a solo 50 can kill it with a decent fight. Also put these on a fairly long respawn timer maybe 30 minutes to prevent abuse.

There seems to be 2 camps of players. Your primetime crowd looking to spread RvR out more and your off hours players (like me) trying to draw more players out and make getting around agra easier to find someone to fight.

I think the goals are the same we are looking for a challenging fun fight and be able to find them when we want to play and fairly quickly. Coming up with changes that can accomplish this goal and cater to small RvR and big Rvr is an interesting challenge.

Zarkor the problem with removing the camps entirely is because it hinders off hour pvp. It'd be easy for a fg to wipe out the guards peak hours, and peak hours would be determined by what the GMs consider peak hours, they could log [and probably do] what times of the day have what kind of popultion, using that they could determine what 'peak hours' translates into. Uthgards population is only big enough to merit losing the camps during peak hours, at any other time its needed.

So while removing camps entirely is unreasonable for people who play at off hours, cutting the guard respawn during peak hours accomplishes a near identical goal that leaves off hours unaffected, which is why its a good solution, better for everyone worse for none. Perhaps removing the camps entirely is better for 'peak hours' than cutting the respawn but its an unfair adjustment to those who play at other times, whereas cutting the respawn is a fairly middle ground adjustment.

you made a really good point there.kinda like the idea.

is it technicly possible to despawn guards at a certain daytime (or lets say at a certain ammount of players in the zone) ?

I also play on offpeak hours and whats the difference between an empty agramon and an empty larger agramon? Not much if u ask me besides having to run a bit further to check for incs, but empty is still empty.

Anyway it's not just the guards it's also the porting. People will still use the port instead of anything else and the RvR system will still be crippled.

Also, I believe opening up agramon by removing ports and camps will make RvR healthier and more lively again, that's my whole point tbh. Agramon with camps and porting has reached its limit. It's turning into one big zergfest near camps and tbh I can't really call it RvR anymore, I might aswell play WAR if I'd want such fights. I can think of enough people who rather log out than zerg, which is why the camps AND porting put a limit on the population in agra.

Groups refuse to RvR just because of the current situation, which is a rather alarming sign if u ask me. If things dont change soon, I believe some people would consider leaving Uthgard due to the lack of serious and healthy lvl 50 RvR.

Uthgard is peaking at about 600 people at primetime now and having the end RvR zone not growing with it, can only mean stagnation and in the long term a population decrease, which is far from what we want, rigth?

All I ask is to look at the bigger picture instead of a slight non-peak action nerf, which imo won't be as bad as people claim it would be, since bottlencks will just be 1 minute further than MGs (this is without speed). Like I said, small action will find it's way. In addition, the RvR system the devs put so much effort in, will finally see the functionality and attention it deserves instead of some sideproject for people who like to siege. I wouldn't want to see Uthgard losing the opportunity to expand Uthgards (RvR) population.


So, if you really want to approach and solve this problem, I say either remove camps and porting for good, and let horses stop right after the 2nd bridge (when u enter solid agramon ground) so that there's a zone where every inc has to come trough unmounted, which would make it fairly easy to find incs, even at nonpeak hours.

OR

Disable camps for good, but allow people to port ONLY at nonpeak hours, so that agramon actually is completely freed from it's chains during the peak hours.
Perhaps let a smaller camp emerge (3-5 guards) together with the non peak porting opportunity to give them a safe port. Since the port would only be possible in nonpeak hours, there's no need for a large camp with the amount of guards there is now.


Tbh I'm cool with either of these options, but keeping the port (and thus camp) in all day round is just avoiding to look at the real problem and thus losing the possibility for improvement.

I hope now we can at least agree on something..

I can agree that guards are making an unhealthy format for rvr, as groups [particularly hib groups, no offense intended I feel its only because of the proximity of hmg and the camp that they do it] tend to camp those areas and generally don't leave them even when its a fair fight. I don't agree with shortening the horse route and I'll elaborate on that in a moment. Uth population is growing but wasn't the response to that the addition of odins/hadrians/emain? Imo people try to hump their safety net, should be a risk involved with rvring if there are rewards.

The biggest problem I see with total removal of the camps is that it is unhealthy for there to be a stiff bottleneck [the entry bridges at agramon] because groups/stealthers will setup and camp/ambush from that area and people cannot get by. One of the pluses of the camps is there are multiple angles a solo can slip by from and then two milegates at each realm, one of the major issues of OF was that the primary milegates were camped too much hence why Agramon has two milegates, and removing port could mean the bridges make a single bottleneck similiar to OF milegates.

I don't think the problem with the camps is so much the ability to port but rather the guards and the 'safety net' they provide which is a major incentive for players to congregate near them and fall back if things dont go their way, hence causing an unhealthy rvr format. However if a smaller camp of possibly 3-5 guards, pushed back further from the milegate [with no respawn during peak hours] that still allowed for port would mean there is no definite bottleneck, clears up the biggest 'rvr health' issue, that will still function well in off hours without being too radical of a change. I think its important that the port is not disabled just the guards [and fewer guards in general would be a plus overall, as well as being pushed back further from the milegates].

Wondering how anyone else feels about the matter but I would really appreciate it if the mid camp wasn't sunk into the ground ;-; not fair we can't see people roaming on the road while standing in the camp [idc about archers shooting at us they will still be able to do that if its raised up].

Overall to sum it up, I think a smaller camp pushed back with no guard respawn during peak hours would benefit everyone without people being upset over the change.

On a side note I bet Blue hates us right now ^^. We're propsing a change that would require more work opposed to a simple cutting guard respawn during peak hours fix.

Most groups will still roam agramon, 90% of the group fights will still be in agramon aaaaaaaand we're back to the zerging issue. I am sure that soloers would after a while realize that most of them are gathering and fighting in hadrians/emain/odins. As for the groups/stealthers camping agra bridges, wow someone is camping bridges, I have never seen THAT in daoc. Wtf daoc isn't supposed to be fair, it is only as fair as people make it.

Allowing people to port will still make sieging as unimportant as it is now, which makes the whole new RvR system pretty much useless, people don't care about towers or w/e, for instance yesterday hib just let Alb/Mid play DF tag with its towers just because nobody actually cared about the tower(s). Actually most of the time hib got DF recently was because 1 person is so hard after the Necklace of Body that he'll do anything for it . In the previous system at least towers had a meaning besides DF, they would close the MGs, so people went to take them (back). In the process of RvR it was actually interesting.

It's kinda a shame imo, to see such an interesting system be left aside.

+ Like I said, porting is part of the problem.


Even if you are going to move camps, where would u be moving them? The only spot in hib to me would be where the tower ruin is, which I don't know would be so easy to remove. Also, every camp should be moved then to that particular spot.
This would be an improvement, I agree, but imo still not what it should be.