With a drop bomb we at least have a chance for our support [which we have a decent amount of] to interrupt or throwdown CC, bombing through the door takes no coordination, just people sitting at the door waiting for oil, its all of the reward of a dropbomb without the risk.

Have you ever even taken a look at the midgard caster specs Elaeli? The Darkness AE is at level 40 and 50, and 45% NS is a 25 supp, so you cannot both have 45% NS and the level 50 aoe, that means prettymuch all the dark/supp RMs are going to have a level 40 aoe, which is pretty pathetic damage wise. An RC RM that goes 48 for the last cold debuff can subspec for 25/35% NS, but they are going to have major damage issues themselves if they cant put any subspec points in dark for the nuke they are using, RMs have to go way out of their way to get a cold debuff, whereas its naturally occuring in chanter's specs and cabalist/sorc specs. The RC RM is not justified unless you are running at least 2 other cold nukers. 2 Dark/supp RM would net the same damage with better utility than 1 RC 1 dark/sup, which is why you don't see many of them.

Have you never played a spiritmaster before? SM is easily one of the most deathprone classes, its incredibly difficult to solo and even if you have a pac healer that levels with you its not that fast, having a 2nd pbae is much better than having AE stun, and hib has lots of pbae. Chanters have focus in their pbae line, whereas spiritmaster has virtually nothing their focus line, making them the worst focus puller out of the 3. There is no way SM is even close to being one of the easier classes to level, let alone right behind animist who is dirty easy to the point its cheap and the uth devs have admitted it. As for BD/SM leveling with lifetap, any nuke that has a secondary component [snare, lifetap, ect] naturally has a higher chance to be resisted and they tend to be less power efficient than the spec 2.8s nukes, which makes for poor leveling.

Hib is definately not 95% caster/healers, I see plenty of open field hybrid groups that do fine. We trebb because things like shroom farms and door pbaes take no coordination or skill, its not hard to make a patch of shrooms in different spots so they arent easily mezed, and they are far too difficult to AE to death, supporting we actually have a caster with a quality AE nuke which we usually don't [see 47/26 comment]. After the animist relook and door pbae adjustment, then it would be feasible to assault an inner door, and its not like defenders still wouldn't have an advantage.

I'd like to kindly remind you to stay ontopic - siege discussion

what good is a siege ram, if 3 trebs hit a door for the same damage from 2500 range?

While reducing the damage from trebs to doors will probably leed to trebs being used against walls (like they were used on live), they could the not be used to open the inner gate -> rams are needed again

H-Man wrote:I'd like to kindly remind you to stay ontopic - siege discussion

what good is a siege ram, if 3 trebs hit a door for the same damage from 2500 range?

While reducing the damage from trebs to doors will probably leed to trebs being used against walls (like they were used on live), they could the not be used to open the inner gate -> rams are needed again

Indeed.
But that would still make the whole outer wall siege a timewaster, as defender there's nothing much you could do against the rain of rocks.
And the inner keep is significantly harder to defend when there's a decent number of ranged enemies around.

Raven wrote:

H-Man wrote:I'd like to kindly remind you to stay ontopic - siege discussion

what good is a siege ram, if 3 trebs hit a door for the same damage from 2500 range?

While reducing the damage from trebs to doors will probably leed to trebs being used against walls (like they were used on live), they could the not be used to open the inner gate -> rams are needed again

Indeed.
But that would still make the whole outer wall siege a timewaster, as defender there's nothing much you could do against the rain of rocks.
And the inner keep is significantly harder to defend when there's a decent number of ranged enemies around.

So where is the problem? Its a timewaster?! Why is it bad, that its ONLY a timewaster? Defenders get more time to get more defenders!

Make Inner door invulnerable to ranged siege weapons and leave the rest as it is. This is the only thing that makes sense.

Gemma wrote:

Raven wrote:

H-Man wrote:I'd like to kindly remind you to stay ontopic - siege discussion

what good is a siege ram, if 3 trebs hit a door for the same damage from 2500 range?

While reducing the damage from trebs to doors will probably leed to trebs being used against walls (like they were used on live), they could the not be used to open the inner gate -> rams are needed again

Indeed.
But that would still make the whole outer wall siege a timewaster, as defender there's nothing much you could do against the rain of rocks.
And the inner keep is significantly harder to defend when there's a decent number of ranged enemies around.

So where is the problem? Its a timewaster?! Why is it bad, that its ONLY a timewaster? Defenders get more time to get more defenders!

Make Inner door invulnerable to ranged siege weapons and leave the rest as it is. This is the only thing that makes sense.

Same counts for the attackers
Anyway, just waiting for more isn't quite thrilling for the first defense, isn't it ?
You want to hold people at bay when you've got the walls, push them back, DEFEND.
Not just sit around looking at the door dropping 1% each couple of shots.

Need to be able to build Palintones,trebs or catapults inside keeps. That will balance all options.

Denasti wrote:Need to be able to build Palintones,trebs or catapults inside keeps. That will balance all options.

Is an option, would surely make it harder to siege, but then it could end up being a (boring?) siege vs siege, instead of PvP

Round 10 last night of unattackable groups using trebs on inner keep to snatch a relic...

It would be nice if the inner keeps siege weapon could do something too, ofc u can build it on the roof but when u try to aim for something with palintore u cant get target. Since u dont see anything from there and if u go closer to the endge to get a target....well then u are too far from the machine already.

Dont know if its supposed to be like that, but kinda stupid if u can build one just for decoration

Zippity wrote:Round 10 last night of unattackable groups using trebs on inner keep to snatch a relic...

took it back at noon with 10 ppl and 2 rams (oldschool XD).

Round 11 of lame treb usage. Went through 4 hours of this crap tonight..

we are midgard ! we don´t need ranged attacks

lower trebu damage to oblivion so it takes 4 hours to shoot a door down with 2 trebuchets.this is really ridiculous.

Zippity wrote:Round 10 last night of unattackable groups using trebs on inner keep to snatch a relic...

I'm sorry, but coming from you of all people, this really is quite hilarious.

The Mids on the trebs are not 'unattackable,' you just need to grow a pair and like, go outside a keep. All you do is tower/keep hump and exploit a bugged volley while having total impunity. From what I can gather from your whines in this topic at this point, what you're really saying is "I hate trebs cause it puts the enemies outside of the range of my volley whoring."

Today we started on rams, and fell back to trebs because we were outnumbered 2.5/1. So with your superior odds (as the defenders no less), what did you all do? Sit in the keep forever. As far as the '4 hours' from tonight, the only reason it took as long as it did is because Hibs all but refused to leave the comforts of their keeps. I will say that we did bring and use trebs, but they were largely ineffective as a result of the one per door rule. The only doors we opened with trebs were ones we already dropped to 15% with rams before being overwhelmed and forced to fall back. In fact, the only real effective trebbing done was by Hibs, who totally razed our tower with a single treb from the keep. Do I think that was lame or exploiting or unfair? Not at all. Trebs are far from the most broken aspect of siege warfare in their current implementation.

Fishop wrote:

Zippity wrote:Round 10 last night of unattackable groups using trebs on inner keep to snatch a relic...

I'm sorry, but coming from you of all people, this really is quite hilarious.

The Mids on the trebs are not 'unattackable,' you just need to grow a pair and like, go outside a keep. All you do is tower/keep hump and exploit a bugged volley while having total impunity. From what I can gather from your whines in this topic at this point, what you're really saying is "I hate trebs cause it puts the enemies outside of the range of my volley whoring."

Today we started on rams, and fell back to trebs because we were outnumbered 2.5/1. So with your superior odds (as the defenders no less), what did you all do? Sit in the keep forever. As far as the '4 hours' from tonight, the only reason it took as long as it did is because Hibs all but refused to leave the comforts of their keeps. I will say that we did bring and use trebs, but they were largely ineffective as a result of the one per door rule. The only doors we opened with trebs were ones we already dropped to 15% with rams before being overwhelmed and forced to fall back. In fact, the only real effective trebbing done was by Hibs, who totally razed our tower with a single treb from the keep. Do I think that was lame or exploiting or unfair? Not at all. Trebs are far from the most broken aspect of siege warfare in their current implementation.

rofl

yeah cuz a druid + 5 stealthers is a huge grp to go push back ram users xD

just lol m8

we only kicked you back once 1 FG of visis came back from pve raid

and when they did you ran (i understand cuz all of a sudden we were more than 5 stealthers and a druid

Keep defense should be an individual aspect of the game. Saying it should be reduced to fighting it out in the open field isn't the right way.

If you cannot take a keep defended by a much superior force directly then there is something right about Siege Warfare. However if it turns out, the defenders have to go out, then again there is something wrong.