I am making a proposal that uthgard implement some live features into the current rvr siege mechanics in order to more evenly balance keep sieges.

I will list the current issues with siege warefare at present and then I will outline my proposal in which will illustrate what could potentially be done about these problems.

Current problems:


Siege weapons such as trebuchets and catapults can be used to attack ANY target within a keep with no risk to the attackers with similar damage output as rams. This makes a situation where players only have to bring these siege engines, take down the doors and rush the defenders inside with virtually no risk to themselves. This removes most of all defensive advantages for defenders inside of a keep and thus can make defenses senseless if attackers come with these tools.



Live currently employs the usage of having certain points at a keep remain unattackable by siege weapons so as to prevent players from targeting the inner door of a keep with long range siege weapons without risk to themselves. Furthermore, live has also rotated and changed the interior layout of the inner keep sections so that players cannot directly target the inner door from any point of a keep while using long range siege weapons.


Proposals:



1. Make siege weapons such as trebuchets do significantly less damage to keep doors (but keep their damage the same against walls). Perhaps a 90-99% damage reduction against keep doors would be appropriate to offer incentives to attackers to use rams instead.

OR

2. Make keep doors unattackable by trebuchets, catapults, ballista, palintones. This would again make it so that rams would be used for their intended purpose (taking out doors) and thus put the defenders in a position to where they can obtain benefit from being inside the keep.


OR

3. Make inner keep doors unattackable by trebuchets, catapults, ballista, pallintones. This would make it so that rams would be used for their intended purpose (taking out doors) and thus put the defenders in a position to where they can obtain benefit from being inside the keep. This would also give some use to other siege engines while ultimately giving the defenders a chance to make use of the keep since they can still attack players from inside the inner keep with oil etc as the attackers can only use rams against the inner keep door.

yea using rams in the middle of 150 shrooms yay

Runis wrote:yea using rams in the middle of 150 shrooms yay

Unfortunately, 30 is the limit here..and easily crowd controlled.

Re 3: I think it would be ok to attack Inner Doors with siege weapons placed in the inner courtyard. That surely does not work with trebuchets and minimum range, but why not ballistas? On the other hand, they will probably do no reasonable damage against doors anyway.

Zippity wrote:

Runis wrote:yea using rams in the middle of 150 shrooms yay

Unfortunately, 30 is the limit here..and easily crowd controlled.

Well Zippity...maybe you didnt noticed sofar but most mids cant count -g-

just like most hibs and albs i know of claiming "omfg you run wtf 11 slot again *cryz0r*"
when the only adder the group has is the sm-pet

slight offtopic, sorry ^^

forcing attackers to stay in close range is not a good idea.

it's already so hard to take a keep with a fg if there are 2 or 3 players to defend it with guards etc...

(about the offtopic about shrooms i think there are enough post about it ... but just to add something... oki it s not 150 shrooms but limitation is 1500 range so you can place 3 spots so 90 shrooms is not so far and even 30 is far to much)

panachier wrote:forcing attackers to stay in close range is not a good idea.

it's already so hard to take a keep with a fg if there are 2 or 3 players to defend it with guards etc...

If that group has no healer..maybe. If the group has 1 or more chars that can heal, then that isn't the case at all. Believe me, i defend enough towers/keeps to know what usually happens. Groups almost always have 2 healers and if that is the case, they usually take the tower if they set up rams or trebs with out any assistance from additional defenders with spells or other heavy hitting ranged attacks.

i dont talk about a tower defended by a ranger...

but a keep max level defended by 1 healer and 2 or 3 casters...

So, it's hard to take a keep with 8 attackers vs. 4 defenders - can't see what's wrong about that.

yes, but why make it harder ?

Phileas wrote:yes, but why make it harder ?

It not a question of making it harder, only fair. The rvr zone is already a custom implementation, which is why i am even proposing that it be changed at all. if it were truly being based on live (or 1.80 ) then I wouldn't be an advocate of changing anything. Since it isnt, I am just proposing that things be done to make the experience based less on using exploitative means and more oriented towards teamwork tactics and making sieges more enjoyable for everyone instead of being one sided events.

[x] for (2) being implemented

the current mechanic needs to be changed. especially when keeps and their guards are so weak that you can potentially take all relics with one fg.

Zippity wrote:Proposals:

1. Make siege weapons such as trebuchets do significantly less damage to keep doors (but keep their damage the same against walls). Perhaps a 90-99% damage reduction against keep doors would be appropriate to offer incentives to attackers to use rams instead.

OR

2. Make keep doors unattackable by trebuchets, catapults, ballista, palintones. This would again make it so that rams would be used for their intended purpose (taking out doors) and thus put the defenders in a position to where they can obtain benefit from being inside the keep.


OR

3. Make inner keep doors unattackable by trebuchets, catapults, ballista, pallintones. This would make it so that rams would be used for their intended purpose (taking out doors) and thus put the defenders in a position to where they can obtain benefit from being inside the keep. This would also give some use to other siege engines while ultimately giving the defenders a chance to make use of the keep since they can still attack players from inside the inner keep with oil etc as the attackers can only use rams against the inner keep door.

I agree with the fact keeps should be harder to cap, but these proposals would just result in people taking trebs and shooting holes in the wall, completely ignoring the outer door, thus making outer walls nearly useless and centering the defense on the center keep, which is harder to defend.

I believe the solution to be alot simpler, just lower the treb/cata damage and add a limit to the amount of siege weapons that can be used to attack a single keep component.
This would significantly slow down the siege when it comes to attacking from range, thus making rams alot more attractive.

Or perhaps just increase the damage of palintones and other anti-siege equipment, since at the moment they're pretty much a joke.

yay lost both relics to 2 trebuchets

20 attackers outside doing nothing but firing trebuchets .
10 defenders inside unable to do anything except charge out

attackers just shot down both doors completely safe from defenders. i logged out when the first shot was fired at the innergate cause i knew the keep is already gone.