i do agree to 100% with panachier....

its the worst thing mythic ever did in that game, even more worst than toa ...
i am kind of person who likes to revolutionise things and not to reform things a thousand time till everyone stop whining ....
thats why i would just remove the SI classes and offer each player a other class with the same level, money and rr ...
it would be a big step, i am sure people would still qq espacialy the SI classes players, but my opinion is that that people r just playing that classes because they are advanced while playing it, they just like to roxxor win win win , and its funny people who playing those chars realy try to argue that its fair so i tell u guys, (??do u realy believe that crap ??) , its absurd to try to tell us that its totaly fair and even to the other players playing a reaver,bd or animist!

For me the decision is close to say bye bye OR to force my buddys to build a roxxor setup like ... 2 healers shaman 3 bds skald sm ...
what would u say than ?
well i need to say i would just quit, but maybe other would build such totaly optimized setups, i am sure that would lead to the end of uthgard

MT-Pear wrote:cant understand how an animist can hold a keep against a fg (not talking about BGs)

Normaly they treb the outergate, than the innergate and rush in.

And nobody can tell me 2 healers cant hold one against shrooms it works in braemar, why you shouldnt can do it??

I think one should ponder the absurdity of the situation that you can just treb down gates/walls with no risk to yourself or group....



To me that is much more of an issue these days than these pets.

dont ignore the amount of mana and time needed to set up such a farm.
30 shrooms on one ani?
i can make 18x lvl 28 shrooms with pot 5 and instant mana drinks as long as im not combat flagged.

to get to 30, i need 2 instant manas, pot 5 and mcl while not in combat. and as soon as any of my shrooms is attacked/ing, i cant regain any mana for the next minute - in a keep defense the only source of mana for me is a barrel and mcl since something always is in combat.

and btw... these 30 oh so powerful lvl 28 shrooms do about 40-60 dmg per hit if at all and are easily mezzed / destroyed by 2-3 AEs, which costs a fraction of the mana i need to set up.

plus by the time the field is "finshed", mean mana is gone 3 times over, half of them start dieing already.

if i use higher shrooms im down to max 12 with alle the mana i can possibly get.

you can DELAY a fg for a bit in a keep defence if you have 2+ anis, but you cant kill them. no chance. you may get down 1 person with a massive shroom farm around a corner and a tangler on the other side so they have time to attack, but only if the healer is sleeping or out of range - and you have to spam bombers to inflict any real damage - which you dont have mana for if you just set up a big farm.

remember that except for the weak and unrelailable bombers all our weapons are baseline and we basicly have 1 baseline working, 1 bugged spec line and 4 spells out of the other two baselines.


baseline lifetap which outdamges the bombers (bug) and cost enourmos amounts of mana.

baseline fire and forget turrets with the health of a low green mob thats hurt already which can easily taken out by CC/AE.


we have a specline turret which does good damage and has blueisch hitpoints, but takes forever to pick up a new target, get in meele mode if someone is too close to it and dies if ANY other shroom get killed.
useless.


and if we face of another mage - well. just hope your mana is full and your baseline lifetap doesnt get resisted too much since thats all you can use.

the animist as it is now is weak against any kind of add if he doesnt have his baselien turret farm.

once your attacked the only means to fight is using moc and spam bombers.
of which you need a whole frigging lot to kill someone even if he doesnt have a healer. if there IS a healer - either moc and cast 1-2 tanglers before you die to annoy them for a few seconds OR just sit out and save yourself the stress.




we can talk about a 5 shroom cap again once all base/speclines are in and we have real bomber damage or pbae pets and have some valid data.

as of now, the only weapon an animist really has are the hearts and they dont cut it in small numbers, not even against solos (and as far as pve goes, a yellow mob will have a high chance killing you if you dont have a large field - they dont hold aggro in the least and if they dont do enough damage to bring it down in one go, you will most likely die.)

BlackCougar wrote:dont ignore the amount of mana and time needed to set up such a farm.
30 shrooms on one ani?
i can make 18x lvl 28 shrooms with pot 5 and instant mana drinks as long as im not combat flagged.

to get to 30, i need 2 instant manas, pot 5 and mcl while not in combat. and as soon as any of my shrooms is attacked/ing, i cant regain any mana for the next minute - in a keep defense the only source of mana for me is a barrel and mcl since something always is in combat.

and btw... these 30 oh so powerful lvl 28 shrooms do about 40-60 dmg per hit if at all and are easily mezzed / destroyed by 2-3 AEs, which costs a fraction of the mana i need to set up.

plus by the time the field is "finshed", mean mana is gone 3 times over, half of them start dieing already.

if i use higher shrooms im down to max 12 with alle the mana i can possibly get.

you can DELAY a fg for a bit in a keep defence if you have 2+ anis, but you cant kill them. no chance. you may get down 1 person with a massive shroom farm around a corner and a tangler on the other side so they have time to attack, but only if the healer is sleeping or out of range - and you have to spam bombers to inflict any real damage - which you dont have mana for if you just set up a big farm.

remember that except for the weak and unrelailable bombers all our weapons are baseline and we basicly have 1 baseline working, 1 bugged spec line and 4 spells out of the other two baselines.


baseline lifetap which outdamges the bombers (bug) and cost enourmos amounts of mana.

baseline fire and forget turrets with the health of a low green mob thats hurt already which can easily taken out by CC/AE.


we have a specline turret which does good damage and has blueisch hitpoints, but takes forever to pick up a new target, get in meele mode if someone is too close to it and dies if ANY other shroom get killed.
useless.


and if we face of another mage - well. just hope your mana is full and your baseline lifetap doesnt get resisted too much since thats all you can use.

the animist as it is now is weak against any kind of add if he doesnt have his baselien turret farm.

once your attacked the only means to fight is using moc and spam bombers.
of which you need a whole frigging lot to kill someone even if he doesnt have a healer. if there IS a healer - either moc and cast 1-2 tanglers before you die to annoy them for a few seconds OR just sit out and save yourself the stress.




we can talk about a 5 shroom cap again once all base/speclines are in and we have real bomber damage or pbae pets and have some valid data.

as of now, the only weapon an animist really has are the hearts and they dont cut it in small numbers, not even against solos (and as far as pve goes, a yellow mob will have a high chance killing you if you dont have a large field - they dont hold aggro in the least and if they dont do enough damage to bring it down in one go, you will most likely die.)

agree 100%, no better description ever found

Zippity wrote:

MT-Pear wrote:cant understand how an animist can hold a keep against a fg (not talking about BGs)

Normaly they treb the outergate, than the innergate and rush in.

And nobody can tell me 2 healers cant hold one against shrooms it works in braemar, why you shouldnt can do it??

I think one should ponder the absurdity of the situation that you can just treb down gates/walls with no risk to yourself or group....



To me that is much more of an issue these days than these pets.

agree 100%

glad there is still some ram users, or tower defense would be a waste of time

Offtopic: So what is trebuchet good for or how is it balanced against rams? Zippity, maybe a good new thread for tests.

its not a matter of balance since all 3 realms can get trebs, its just that trebs currently allows players to break walls and attack gates without ever be in danger, a lot more range than casters/snipers, this also makes rams obsolete.

imo trebs shouldnt beable to attack doors ^^ only ramns

Trebs are bugged in another way too, they can target a Player and automatically follow that player around, even if he stealthes and/or moves, hitting him and kicking him out of stealth no matter where he goes, as long as he stays in Range. You cannot log out, because you get damage and the game wont let you log out, so you cannot get out of the target.
Only way to get rid of a Treb shooting you is to /qtd.

Salidor wrote:imo trebs shouldnt beable to attack doors ^^ only ramns

rams are designed to attack gate.
catapult designed to attack players.
what about trebu and huge Xbow ( i dont remember the name)?

as i remember they are designed to do both, but not as wel as the others siege weapons... it seems oki for me

once tried to attack a player with a treb and it told me that its only for attacking keep structures. Wasnt that long ago, maybe a week or so.

pana trebs are for walls
and pallitone is for destroying rams, trebs, pallitones, or catas

My UI has a Vulnerable/ressistant table for Siege.

There are following things mentioned:

Rams: Strong against Gates

Trebuchets: Strong against Buildings
Weak against Walls

Catapults: Strong against Walls
Weak against Players

Palintones/Ballista: Strong against Siege Weapons
Weak against Players

Boiling Oil: Strong against Players
Weak against Siege Weapons

There is not mentioned wether they work on other targets as well but i doubt that. Best would be a Zippity testing row on live i guess

panachier wrote:

Salidor wrote:imo trebs shouldnt beable to attack doors ^^ only ramns

rams are designed to attack gate.
catapult designed to attack players.
what about trebu and huge Xbow ( i dont remember the name)?

as i remember they are designed to do both, but not as wel as the others siege weapons... it seems oki for me

imo=in my opion ^^

its just a thought of mine...

I know in live trebs/cata/balistas and rams all can attack the main gate.

rams by far ripped apart doors. then trebs did alright on doors the others cata/balista took forever and a day to drop a keep door ^^

I just think that only a Ram should beable to attack a keep gate. or at least Kill the amount of damage a treb/cata/balista can do to doors ^^(if they want to play it safe make them work for it)

as Trebs where in mind of taking out walls
Cata to kill men at arms
and balistas to help defend the keep from trebs/catas (By Mytic understandin)

massivmampfer wrote:My UI has a Vulnerable/ressistant table for Siege.

There are following things mentioned:

Rams: Strong against Gates

Trebuchets: Strong against Buildings
Weak against Walls

Catapults: Strong against Walls
Weak against Players

Palintones/Ballista: Strong against Siege Weapons
Weak against Players

Boiling Oil: Strong against Players
Weak against Siege Weapons

There is not mentioned wether they work on other targets as well but i doubt that. Best would be a Zippity testing row on live i guess

Good to know. I think Uthgard doesnt use such differences. Time to implement it.

blue careful here

true on some of those things but that list isnt really helpful

because

treb vs gates? no clue

catas vs gates? no clue

but its a good starting point