panachier wrote:warden/infi/SB/archers have no insta to rupt but they can spec melee and they are not full tank...

there is no real difference between a savage and a reaver... one insta self buff other one insta debuff...

Look at their baseclass again. warden is supporter (naturalist baseclass). infi/sb/archer are stealther.
But we are talking about tanks here (Fighter, Guardian, Viking). The reason why savage got a castable taunt compared to the instant taunt of the paladin, was savage is a full det tank, while pala is not. This was stated either by mythic or a TL, not sure anymore. All fulltanks have to stand still to rupt on distance (bow, crossbow or casttaunt).

malle wrote:they got it with 1.83 so they dont have it on uth afaik^^

Talking about svg stoi?

Btw Duke I see your whine propaganda avatar and sig, and I'm thinking, when was the last time you grouped in agra with anything else besides warden ? Not all classes have so many active, powerful RAs. Some don't have any at all (eldritch for example, DT and VP don't help at all in group rvr). Some have it just as well with active RAs as warden (minstrel i.e, SoS+ AM) yet they're still undesirable in any 8 man agra group. Some just have it all (skald, sos+am+aog...)

See my point ? Active RAs are not what makes a char.

Flamingfury wrote:[...]and I'm thinking, when was the last time you grouped in agra with anything else besides warden ?[...]

just some days ago, I have a Blademaster who runs in grp often because our grp already has a warden.

So slambot if not warden, shocking.

By the way those lines in that pic in your sig, they tell pretty much what MB told my eldritch when I was mana spec and new to uthgard. So it has nothing to do with RAs, only people being buttholes

These old RAs suck.

Example: You need Agg Dex to have Mastery of Pain. Ridiculous! MoP is crit hit in melee, what does it have to do with dex? If it was with a pierce/thrust shield user, then makes sense, but what does a two-handed blunt/slash want with that? Worthless! Wasted points! Even with Salbei's explanation on this, it still SUCKS.

What would archer do against assassin then? what can a ruptable class (with no instants, like casters) do against a meleer that just pops out of the nowhere in melee range? That "once-every-30-min" crap? Pfaw, come on! that is why MoS works as it is now, without it archers and minstrel only suspect that there is an assassin near when 50% hp is gone. If assassins are meant to be like this, then for sure not against other stealthers, who are supposed to detect stealthers better then non-stealthers (with the MOS as it is), thus being useful in a group to chase other hidden players.

And all aggumented stats? "chance-to" enhancers, Toughness? same cost for lower bonus. No RR5. if classes get RA's that they were not meant to, then consider distributting RAs better instead of changing the whole system to something that just plain SUCKS!

Old RAs SUCK!



->Duke, I am borrowing your signature for a while.

The old Ra system had some flaws that mythic tried to fix with the new one. All in all they made it quite ok i think. But there is a big problem. It was introduced when TOA was already in with all its artes and MLs. The new system is build around them.
It has some major flaws without them as some ras are to powerful without the counter ML. Uthgard adjusted some RAs like TWF by changing it from essence to matter to correct that. But others like SOS still lack something to counter it and makes its quite a huge advantage if you have it up. Actually SOS on inc is like an I-win-button against caster heavy setups.
So I guess neither the old nor the new ra system really works well for uthgard without modification. Mythic said they want to introduce a new RA system mixed from old and new frontier system for the origin server. Maybe this will be the answer to the RA balance issue on uthgard. Might be worth to wait for it till you decide on the matter.

Dont forget charge. (i am ranger). Where is my phaseshift (unattackable for 30 sec, but you cant attack your opponent) or zephyr

Midgard has 2 full det tanks svg and berserk.. but in fact they got not the same amount of other classes as well.
(Hib/Alb = more caster or healing classes)

Pls keep in mind that the 3 realms are designed to be different.. and midgard is the melee realm!

Albion was designed to be very tough while hibernia got powerful casters... what u are doing is like I would cry in every thread about baseline stun ^^ or whatever... pls dont see only the advantages of the other realms.. try to use your advantages more!

Beside this I dont think SoS is op. If SoS is used maybe just 3-4 ppl use it the whole time... you get in combat again easily.

old ras is tanklove , and we already have tanklove on uth.
I dont want to see only grps of supporters and off and fulltanks fighting each other.

Meanwhile there are some casters active in 50 rvr in all realms , remember maybe 1 , or 1,5 years ago , there were only melee setups cause no one liked weak casters in grp , well they are still not liked , but with old ras , you wont see casters in rvr grps after maybe 2 weeks for a very long time , or maybe as long as the old ra system is running here.

Argyl wrote:I dont want to see only grps of supporters and off and fulltanks fighting each other.

Which is exactly what agramon RvR is in the past few months.

Flamingfury wrote:

Argyl wrote:I dont want to see only grps of supporters and off and fulltanks fighting each other.

Which is exactly what agramon RvR is in the past few months.

?!? Mastery of the art, mastery of the arcane, 100% (cheaper) moc.

charge gone

= tanklove ?

lol at dukes images

Offtopic @ sos:

Every Hibgroup has a bard = SOS
Every Midgroup has aleast 1 skald = SOS ( i think skald is really one of the most played classes )

On alb it looks different! So how could someone playing not-alb say its not an i-win-button xD.


The new changes on Pot-use in Combat, impacts on Alb much deeper than Mid or Hib..following the same argument:

Hib: always 1 Bard= Endu (a class essential for every group)
Mid: always 1 Shami= Endu (a class usually u dont lack! and is essential)
Alb: Pala ... hm. People used to run alot without him before. Now its getting somehow pointless

I hope u get my point


OnTopic:
The old RAs will give some overall bonus to alb. Removing SoS for the other realms (and other stuff ^^)...

./agree with alan both systems has pro's and con's .. one has to think about a good mixture.

Greetz
Nes

Alandrian wrote:The old Ra system had some flaws that mythic tried to fix with the new one. All in all they made it quite ok i think. But there is a big problem. It was introduced when TOA was already in with all its artes and MLs. The new system is build around them.
It has some major flaws without them as some ras are to powerful without the counter ML. Uthgard adjusted some RAs like TWF by changing it from essence to matter to correct that. But others like SOS still lack something to counter it and makes its quite a huge advantage if you have it up. Actually SOS on inc is like an I-win-button against caster heavy setups.
So I guess neither the old nor the new ra system really works well for uthgard without modification. Mythic said they want to introduce a new RA system mixed from old and new frontier system for the origin server. Maybe this will be the answer to the RA balance issue on uthgard. Might be worth to wait for it till you decide on the matter.

I didn't think there was anything such as essence resistance on live, but I could be very wrong as I quit shortly after toa. In any event this sums up pretty much how i feel about the new RA system vs the old RA system as well. I think discussing this issue is productive to a point but in my honest opinion i think doing so now would only open a huge can of worms in which could potentially ruin the whole experience on the server and would mainly serve as a distraction to the staff which would prevent them from concentrating on continueing to implement/fix the current issues. What I really believe should be done is to put this on the backburner until the server at least has all classes/abilities/features implemented correctly, THEN contemplatation can begin on what needs to be adjusted/balanced or what not and make this topic as public as possible with no hidden discussions, backroom agreements and any other such special interest deals.

The first thing to be done is to find out if people really want things to be changed like this to begin with. Ultimately I feel that it would be a bad idea to do this in any event as it makes things 'custom' in the sense that the server will lose its unique place as being 'live-like.' On the other hand I do see the merit in 'rebalancing' things but again, this opens a can of worms on issues because anyone and everyone can then start proposing to 'balance' their class or ability with another class ability etc etc.