Aerewyn wrote:"The gates there could have similar effects like the milegates."

Milegates would probably send me back to live. Losing those was the only good thing about NF.

Aerewyn

YOU TAKE THAT BACK! <3 MGs

Luv wrote:4: Different NF zone... This might actually work... provided you keep emain in action. Maybe if you'd activate all 3 borderzones (emain, HW, OG) each with one keep ( bit like the old version) giving players a choise where they go. If a realm is zerging one zone, the other realms have an option of moving to another for rvr, it will also split up larger groups and leave more room for smaller or solo players. the one keep will slightly reduce the size of the zone used leaving less open space to wander about. Agramon will also be a viable option then, since it connects all 3 zones together, placing a different TK at each entrance will prevent players from walking to a different zone without teleporting back to their home realm but will also allow them to battle it out in the middle (example: ATK guarding HW's entrance, MTK guarding OG's entrance and HTK guarding Emain entrance. Albs and Mids cant go from agramon to emain or from emain to agramon without risking the TK guards' agro) this would mean you got 4 zones to RvR in, might be a bit much but I'd suggest somehow disabling agramon and maybe start out with just 2 zones and see if it works out.

Well i had that idea before, but not many people shared that idea..



Is this what you mean?

Having Emain+Hadrian's wall+Odin's gate+Agramon would be cool but it would be way too big for Uthgard's players.


I vote for another NF zone, such as Agramon or anything you can find that suits more the Uthgard lvl50 rvr battles than Emain. Keeping the stealthers, solos and small rvr/xp groups in mind while setting up a new rvr zone would be cool.

What about Hadrianswall with 3 keeps? Would be a terrain change (even though it's mirrored).

Nayru wrote:

Luv wrote:4: Different NF zone... This might actually work... provided you keep emain in action. Maybe if you'd activate all 3 borderzones (emain, HW, OG) each with one keep ( bit like the old version) giving players a choise where they go. If a realm is zerging one zone, the other realms have an option of moving to another for rvr, it will also split up larger groups and leave more room for smaller or solo players. the one keep will slightly reduce the size of the zone used leaving less open space to wander about. Agramon will also be a viable option then, since it connects all 3 zones together, placing a different TK at each entrance will prevent players from walking to a different zone without teleporting back to their home realm but will also allow them to battle it out in the middle (example: ATK guarding HW's entrance, MTK guarding OG's entrance and HTK guarding Emain entrance. Albs and Mids cant go from agramon to emain or from emain to agramon without risking the TK guards' agro) this would mean you got 4 zones to RvR in, might be a bit much but I'd suggest somehow disabling agramon and maybe start out with just 2 zones and see if it works out.

Well i had that idea before, but not many people shared that idea..



Is this what you mean?

it does seem a little too big for uthgard, but my main concern is the ppl leaving when they're greatly outnumbered/outclassed. the good thing about having different frontierzones is the fact that players can choose where they go. "blablabla is zerging in emain, lets go to hadrians" agramon is just a bit of a pain as it's now connecting all frontier zones. maybe you could check the other frontier zones for good maps and use 2 of them instead of emain? the thing i find lacking on uthgard is the realmpride i experienced on live server, defending your own border. emain as it is now is nothing more than a 3 keep bg with towers. if each realm had 'their keep/keeps' in their own frontier, maybe there would be more initiative to recapture lost keeps. it's all a bit much perhaps but do remember that on live servers, where they had a huge frontier zone for each realm, most rvr action usualy took place in the same zone (emain and odins gate were the more favorite ones when i played Excalibur) so opening up more zones will give players more choise but wont necesarily expand the rvr area that much. it might be tough for a while, but eventually rvr will concentrate on the more fun parts of a zone. emain right now doesnt really have any fun parts, it's just a flat terrain with a few bumps and trees.

if you could, perhaps use the old frontier zones (emain, hw & og) with a modern keep (even though i favorite the old ones) that way there's no need for agramon and those zones arent as big as the new versions due to the unclimbable mountains and MG's also the keep locations made more sense... they were usually tucked away between mountains wich gave the defenders a good advantage. I could start talking about the 6-hour siege of Bledmeer Faste... but that's ancient history (eventhough it was sooooooooooo much fun, 10-12 albs vs mids as far as my gfxcard could render them... and further) NF didn't really improve the frontiers much, it had some nice features, but overall the terrain is screwed and the keep may look more realistic but they're just not defendable with our numbers. you'd need to outnumber the attackers just to stand a chance, wich is basicaly the opposite of what it should be.

btw, MG's might make it more attractive for scouts/rangers/hunters to participate in rvr... those guys used to love the gates...

There are aproximately 750~1000 lvl 50s on uth

looking @ the herald, it gets to a certain page where the lvl 50s start mixing in with the lvl 46s ect.

Luv wrote:

Nayru wrote:

Luv wrote:4: Different NF zone... This might actually work... provided you keep emain in action. Maybe if you'd activate all 3 borderzones (emain, HW, OG) each with one keep ( bit like the old version) giving players a choise where they go. If a realm is zerging one zone, the other realms have an option of moving to another for rvr, it will also split up larger groups and leave more room for smaller or solo players. the one keep will slightly reduce the size of the zone used leaving less open space to wander about. Agramon will also be a viable option then, since it connects all 3 zones together, placing a different TK at each entrance will prevent players from walking to a different zone without teleporting back to their home realm but will also allow them to battle it out in the middle (example: ATK guarding HW's entrance, MTK guarding OG's entrance and HTK guarding Emain entrance. Albs and Mids cant go from agramon to emain or from emain to agramon without risking the TK guards' agro) this would mean you got 4 zones to RvR in, might be a bit much but I'd suggest somehow disabling agramon and maybe start out with just 2 zones and see if it works out.

Well i had that idea before, but not many people shared that idea..



Is this what you mean?

it does seem a little too big for uthgard, but my main concern is the ppl leaving when they're greatly outnumbered/outclassed. the good thing about having different frontierzones is the fact that players can choose where they go. "blablabla is zerging in emain, lets go to hadrians" agramon is just a bit of a pain as it's now connecting all frontier zones. maybe you could check the other frontier zones for good maps and use 2 of them instead of emain? the thing i find lacking on uthgard is the realmpride i experienced on live server, defending your own border. emain as it is now is nothing more than a 3 keep bg with towers. if each realm had 'their keep/keeps' in their own frontier, maybe there would be more initiative to recapture lost keeps. it's all a bit much perhaps but do remember that on live servers, where they had a huge frontier zone for each realm, most rvr action usualy took place in the same zone (emain and odins gate were the more favorite ones when i played Excalibur) so opening up more zones will give players more choise but wont necesarily expand the rvr area that much. it might be tough for a while, but eventually rvr will concentrate on the more fun parts of a zone. emain right now doesnt really have any fun parts, it's just a flat terrain with a few bumps and trees.

if you could, perhaps use the old frontier zones (emain, hw & og) with a modern keep (even though i favorite the old ones) that way there's no need for agramon and those zones arent as big as the new versions due to the unclimbable mountains and MG's also the keep locations made more sense... they were usually tucked away between mountains wich gave the defenders a good advantage. I could start talking about the 6-hour siege of Bledmeer Faste... but that's ancient history (eventhough it was sooooooooooo much fun, 10-12 albs vs mids as far as my gfxcard could render them... and further) NF didn't really improve the frontiers much, it had some nice features, but overall the terrain is screwed and the keep may look more realistic but they're just not defendable with our numbers. you'd need to outnumber the attackers just to stand a chance, wich is basicaly the opposite of what it should be.

btw, MG's might make it more attractive for scouts/rangers/hunters to participate in rvr... those guys used to love the gates...

LOL, are you crazy???
You really didn't understand the issue, did you?

The main problem of Uthgard-RvR consists of a low RvR-population in huge contrast to the whole population of the server. Ok sometimes it's zergy, but this is not a major problem. On the other hand there must be changes in the community. Uthgard needs more solo-running-players, but this aim can only be achieved by decreasing the zone's size and centralizing the rvr-action on 1 point(can be a tower or keep).

To raise the RvR-population might be another solution of this problem, but i would not like the idea to raise lvl-speed...

But of course....i'm only a lil stupid guy who just tells ****** >_>
I did not watch the development of Uthgard from laptop-PvP-server to one of the most decent RvR-freeshards ....

The size of the RvR map isn´t the main problem imo. For RvR only 2/3 of the map are use the rest is for pvm. I mean the area at the tigers and lusus near dun bolg.

Imo The problem is the style of this map it is a part of the new frontier zone and it isnt created to have 3 realms with there porter keeps there. on the current map some realms will always have advantages and disadvantages because this map were not created as an single rvr Map.

I would enjoy it if we could play in old emain zone or a zone that is nearly fair for ALL Realms.


@ Nayru

Ur idea looks very well but i guess we have to less Rvr playing ppl on this Server but it is the right way to create a FAIR Rvr Zone.

Luv wrote:if you could, perhaps use the old frontier zones (emain, hw & og) with a modern keep (even though i favorite the old ones) that way there's no need for agramon and those zones arent as big as the new versions due to the unclimbable mountains and MG's also the keep locations made more sense... they were usually tucked away between mountains wich gave the defenders a good advantage.

You seem to forget that we are running 1.89 now - there are no unclimbable mountains no advantage for defenders anymore.

PNG wrote:LOL, are you crazy???
You really didn't understand the issue, did you?

The main problem of Uthgard-RvR consists of a low RvR-population in huge contrast to the whole population of the server. Ok sometimes it's zergy, but this is not a major problem. On the other hand there must be changes in the community. Uthgard needs more solo-running-players, but this aim can only be achieved by decreasing the zone's size and centralizing the rvr-action on 1 point(can be a tower or keep).

This proposal ignores the problem, accepts the situation and changes nothing. You've detected the problem (less population in Emain), but why you don't want to solve this!? Change the basics to fit to the situation won't solve the problem - you have to change the basics to change the situation.

PNG wrote:To raise the RvR-population might be another solution of this problem, but i would not like the idea to raise lvl-speed...

Increasing the Level-Speed won't increase the Emain population - this will only increase the number of inactive Level50 Chars. There are much more and better posibilities to solve this problem.


Structure of Emain population as desired:
- Level Groups
- Solo Player
- Smal Groups (2 or 4 Player)
- Full Groups
- Little and bigger Zergs

If your enemy outnumbers you and you are not able to build up an equal group the most people log and the population decreases. But if you have posibilities for a smaller group to have a chance in Emain, they will stay and maybe later they have a chance to get more people to challenge these enemies, who are the reason to log in the current situation.

If you build up a incentive structure for all these posibilities of Setups you will increase the population of Emain.

Maybe you need a smaller central with keeps and towers, where zergs and full groups have theire routes to fight against equal enemies. But you also need some growing circles with Level spots where small groups find their challenge without logging.

Remember:
Build up a small group is easy.
Build up a full group needs a little bit time.
Build up a Zerg needs to much time.

-> the alternative (if you can't build up a full group or a zerg) is logging - and thats no solution

A cruising small group growing up easily to a full group and a cruising full group will be a zerg in some time, if the situation needs this growth. So you have a continued developement of emain population.

In my opinion it's a better solution to build up a incentive structure for an increasing population instead of ignoring the problem.


Calin

Using a biggest BG zone ( or why not to create one ) with keeps and milegates sound also nice idea to me.

T-Man wrote:

Luv wrote:if you could, perhaps use the old frontier zones (emain, hw & og) with a modern keep (even though i favorite the old ones) that way there's no need for agramon and those zones arent as big as the new versions due to the unclimbable mountains and MG's also the keep locations made more sense... they were usually tucked away between mountains wich gave the defenders a good advantage.

You seem to forget that we are running 1.89 now - there are no unclimbable mountains no advantage for defenders anymore.

Mountains what are center of rvr zones like some in emain - are unclimbable - only those little senceless mountains where leads road anyway can be climbed at any time and anywhere

@Calin

PNG wrote:To raise the RvR-population might be another solution of this problem, but i would not like the idea to raise lvl-speed...

Read my post again and try to understand it plz, thx.
I do NOT want to raise the lvl-speed...i just mentioned that this is the second way....

Of course you have to change the basics!
Because only the recent RvR-system made the community to what it is...
If a grp searches long time for an enemy it is clear that they will kill each solo they find. But if there are many enemies at one point you can play solo or with smaller grps.
Furthermore the admins or who ever have to clarify the community that they do not every time need to build up a grp.
The first thing you do when you log in Emain is to search for a grp, because solo you everytime get killed by a 8-slot-grp.
So Calin i do not ignore the problem i only try to change the basics, because the changes in basic will have an effect on the community.


PNG

PNG wrote:@Calin

PNG wrote:To raise the RvR-population might be another solution of this problem, but i would not like the idea to raise lvl-speed...

Read my post again and try to understand it plz, thx.
I do NOT want to raise the lvl-speed...i just mentioned that this is the second way....

I understood it.
You say it's a solution you don't like.
I would say it's no solution.

PNG wrote: (...) But if there are many enemies at one point you can play solo or with smaller grps. (...)

Do you realy believe in that? - Many enemies at one point leads to zerg or log.

I agree, from my experience, if you kill someone, they come back with more. They don't think, hmm that was fun lets do it again or anything, They say. OMG I am 100% sure I cannot win 1v1, Im so rp horny, I must win! and they sit in tk making a group.