Valfar wrote:

pweet wrote:Was a buged RA, what are we talking about here? Got fixed, that is how it works.

No evidence was ever provided that it was a bug, just the forum whining got them to change it. Again, Armsmen/Warriors/Heroes can easily do 500 dmg on an assassin with a normal hit sometimes if they use a decent style. If they get maximum crit, that's around 750. Why on earth should a zerker not be able to land a 600-800 base damage hit by using a special TEN MINUTE RE-USE AND 10 RA STYLE THAT CAN BE BLOCKED OR ABSORBED ON A ****** CASTER with the slowest possible weapon and a super lucky crit in vendo which only zerker can get is beyond me.

Again, the whole discussion is a joke because nobody got their realm ranks because of Tundra and only morons actually cry about that.

Only morons defend it. Also your argument about it might be absorbed is also very weak. Easy to take a fast swing to ensure bubble down first. If it's blocked/parried? What by a caster with his new shield ability? Pick a better target? Also you are downplaying the damage Tundra did. See the screenshots from the thread.

+ Kinthos you are right imo

Valfar wrote:

pweet wrote:Was a buged RA, what are we talking about here? Got fixed, that is how it works.

No evidence was ever provided that it was a bug, just the forum whining got them to change it. Again, Armsmen/Warriors/Heroes can easily do 500 dmg on an assassin with a normal hit sometimes if they use a decent style. If they get maximum crit, that's around 750. Why on earth should a zerker not be able to land a 600-800 base damage hit by using a special TEN MINUTE RE-USE AND 10 RA STYLE THAT CAN BE BLOCKED OR ABSORBED ON A ****** CASTER with the slowest possible weapon and a super lucky crit in vendo which only zerker can get is beyond me.

Again, the whole discussion is a joke because nobody got their realm ranks because of Tundra and only morons actually cry about that.

You look quiet stupid defending tundra beeing live like as it was. They used a wrong growth rate that is it and hence got fixed. It was a bad RA, and should have never been usefull on Uthgard.
If it ever were as it was implemented on Uthgard, you would have seen tons of IGN discussions about it.
Get over it, it is gone since it was buged. Mids abused it yes, they made some easy RPs with it that's about it.

Gil wrote:How can you say you never lost a single fight? We all get to see the deathspam. Clearly you lost at least ONE fight in HW lastnight. I saw the death spam from your whole group.

I was talking about the other night, when we ran a 6 man and beat everything up. And the fight you want to highlight so badly we lost was the only one lost from the last evening, when we tried to run inside Benowyc and your zerg of NPC's killed us and divided the rps between 37-40 of you.
That made me wanna wait for Romu's predictable behaviour in Sursbrooke afterwards and well, we received a nice almost 8K rps reward in the next half an hour. I hope your casters enjoyed the ram on the stairs .
But the best part was how after that ****** you guys moved the zerg to take Bledmeer ( lvl 1 keep, so many rps to gain divided to 37+ people ), even when having such a large advantage in numbers. So we faked a mass suicide on the Benowyc stairs which exactly as I predicted made you guys come back rushing to Hadrians ... just to get farmed again. Romu tactical mastermind confirmed . We had alot of fun and seeing you guys act like lemmings is always gold. Good times

Zerkers reached 1500+ using left-hand, not 2-hand as some think.

One shotting temped chars should not be a thing in any way, no matter the CD of the skill/RA. And Tundra could not in any way have been implemented correctly, because there were no data of the RA to implement it correctly.
Which "helped" make it hard to fix, because people could not produce proof that it was wrong, because no data showed the correct setting only that people back then thought it was a bad RA (which is no proof, since people might have used it incorrectly).
Only took half a year for it to be fixed, and to this date we still have no clue if it works as it should.

Spivo wrote:Zerkers reached 1500+ using left-hand, not 2-hand as some think.

One shotting temped chars should not be a thing in any way, no matter the CD of the skill/RA. And Tundra could not in any way have been implemented correctly, because there were no data of the RA to implement it correctly.
Which "helped" make it hard to fix, because people could not produce proof that it was wrong, because no data showed the correct setting only that people back then thought it was a bad RA (which is no proof, since people might have used it incorrectly).
Only took half a year for it to be fixed, and to this date we still have no clue if it works as it should.

Nope, all the zerkers I know were using a 2h weapon. I'm not saying style wasn't strong or that it wasn't OP. I'm just saying that if an Armsman/Warrior/Hero can hit an assassin for 500 with a style around 0.9 or 1.0 growth rate, there is no reason a zerker should not be able to hit a caster for 600-800 with a style you can use every 10 minutes and it costs 10 RA points and you CAN't spam it, you get one chance for it every 10 mins and you can miss or it can get blocked. The only reason it landed some huge hits is because berserker can have a maximum crit while in vendo, so 600-800 on a CASTER translates to possible 1200-1600.

You should not get caught like that on a patch level with no charge anyway and for every 1 shot zerkers got, they wasted many styles cause often they crit for 5 or 50 damage, and not max crit. Just saying, if we take into account zerker has to use 2 usable abilities and one of them costing 10 RA points and if we compare it to the damage heavy tanks can deal with a 2h to certain leather wearing classes, I don't think the damage is outrageous. It's the vendo mode that gives it devastating potential.

Again, no good group or player will complain about this except this Pweet guy. Supposedly this dude was in Requiem and they were a damn solid group, so he's gotta be someone's dumb cousin or something. Even on uth1 there were times when I 2-shoted a bard by getting 2 maximum crit snowsqualls in a row. It was rare, but it was possible. Ofc we had DI there but if they didn't have it up I'd get lucky sometimes on some crazy hits in vendo. I'm not saying Tundra or similar styles were balanced, but it's not outrageous to think a style that costs RA points and has a relatively long timer allows you to do like 200 more damage on a caster than you would do on a leather wearing class with a normal style you can spam. Again, it's vendo that gives it that extra kick anyway.

So Valfar again you vommit! noone 1 hits temped same lvl but when tundra was bugged! I in an 8v8 just 1 hit they key class and then fight won! you are such a troll

Valfar wrote: You should not get caught like that on a patch level with no charge anyway and for every 1 shot zerkers got, they wasted many

How do ppl die in an rvr zone with out getting caught?

Alcan wrote:So Valfar again you vommit! noone 1 hits temped same lvl but when tundra was bugged! I in an 8v8 just 1 hit they key class and then fight won! you are such a troll

No, it doesn't happen like that. You have no clue about 8v8, all you do is Caledonia anyway. You could only kill a caster and you needed to get on top of that caster + get lucky on a crit in vendo because you only had 1 shot. In other words, the kill shot was not guaranteed. If you're running a caster group, you expect some casters to die anyway and the fight is not won or lost if someone dies, you'd know that if you weren't an 77 IQ nimrod. Please, learn to at least read English properly when communicating to people. You're all over the place and you focus on single words you interpret the way you want, without understanding the context or the point of the conversation.

Seriously, you totally missed the point of the conversation like always. If you have broken English, either ask someone to translate for you and write a response after that or don't participate in the conversation.

First you dont know what i do! and ye i like the cale action but have several lvl 50 chars for open! You have no clue what you are talking about with the Tundra ra so!

Stasis wrote:

Valfar wrote: You should not get caught like that on a patch level with no charge anyway and for every 1 shot zerkers got, they wasted many

How do ppl die in an rvr zone with out getting caught?

I was not talking about bad incs and stuff, you mostly lose a fight with a hib caster group anyway if it's a close inc and tanks land on top of you, tundra or not. Albs have sos to escape such situations and they have BOF to deal with it, but for hibs it's way harder because even if they GP they still got halted and lost speed with tanks on top of them. And even with Albs they have a solution for the problem once every 30 mins.

In other words, if you have any kind of normal inc you should not be getting caught like that in a hib caster group(unless you managed to overextend several tanks along the way so sacrificing 1 caster in order to get a superior position for others is ok) and if you had a really bad inc you'll lose the fight anyway most likely because without DI, PD and SOS for all realms, too many fights depend greatly either on the type of inc you get or on which 30 min RA you have up. Sorry for not being clear right away, but my point was comparing anytime styles on assassins VS a style which costs points against casters combined with vendo, I just mentioned that you'll die anyway if you get caught like that.


P.S.

Zerker was my main on uth1, here I don't play it but when people asked me before, I told them not to take Tundra anyway(back when it was "bugged"). Ten points seems way too much for something that's not guaranteed or essential. I'm not a fan of high aug str or high mopain. I'd always go for str2-pain2 when I can and aim for AoM3 + EM2 and IP on high RR anyway.

Valfar wrote:
Nope, all the zerkers I know were using a 2h weapon. I'm not saying style wasn't strong or that it wasn't OP. I'm just saying that if an Armsman/Warrior/Hero can hit an assassin for 500 with a style around 0.9 or 1.0 growth rate, there is no reason a zerker should not be able to hit a caster for 600-800 with a style you can use every 10 minutes and it costs 10 RA points and you CAN't spam it, you get one chance for it every 10 mins and you can miss or it can get blocked. The only reason it landed some huge hits is because berserker can have a maximum crit while in vendo, so 600-800 on a CASTER translates to possible 1200-1600.

You should not get caught like that on a patch level with no charge anyway and for every 1 shot zerkers got, they wasted many styles cause often they crit for 5 or 50 damage, and not max crit. Just saying, if we take into account zerker has to use 2 usable abilities and one of them costing 10 RA points and if we compare it to the damage heavy tanks can deal with a 2h to certain leather wearing classes, I don't think the damage is outrageous. It's the vendo mode that gives it devastating potential.

Again, no good group or player will complain about this except this Pweet guy. Supposedly this dude was in Requiem and they were a damn solid group, so he's gotta be someone's dumb cousin or something. Even on uth1 there were times when I 2-shoted a bard by getting 2 maximum crit snowsqualls in a row. It was rare, but it was possible. Ofc we had DI there but if they didn't have it up I'd get lucky sometimes on some crazy hits in vendo. I'm not saying Tundra or similar styles were balanced, but it's not outrageous to think a style that costs RA points and has a relatively long timer allows you to do like 200 more damage on a caster than you would do on a leather wearing class with a normal style you can spam. Again, it's vendo that gives it that extra kick anyway.

And it's not 800 or whatever near this, and is in no way near armsman max damage. Those hits never bothered people. It was the single 1200-1600 hits that bothered people.

But doesn't matter, we are worlds apart. I don't think 1-shotting should ever be a thing, even rare.
Not really worth debating, since you wouldn't change stance and neither would I.

But the RA was not correct, simply because no data were around to make it correct.
The RA is not correct now, simply because no data is around to make it correct.

Valfar wrote:Nope, all the zerkers I know were using a 2h weapon. I'm not saying style wasn't strong or that it wasn't OP. I'm just saying that if an Armsman/Warrior/Hero can hit an assassin for 500 with a style around 0.9 or 1.0 growth rate, there is no reason a zerker

Pretty sure an Armsman and Hero cannot hit an assassin for 500 dmg. That's the other thing you notice while reading the thread. The unstyled dmg on (certain) Midgard classes is way off the scale.

Kazyo wrote:The fact you even entertain the idea of hitting for 480 unstyled being normal worries me Holsten.

There are a lot more people noticing that there is a problem there. But seeing you make claims without actually reading the thread, I guess having a discussion about it is pointless.

Valfar wrote: You could only kill a caster and you needed to get on top of that caster + get lucky on a crit in vendo because you only had 1 shot. In other words, the kill shot was not guaranteed.

Reservoir wrote:A level 50 templated (and pots/charges active) nightshade in the guild got one shotted by Flump the other night.

Crazy.

But there is even talk about 1 shotting support.

Spivo wrote:

Valfar wrote:
Nope, all the zerkers I know were using a 2h weapon. I'm not saying style wasn't strong or that it wasn't OP. I'm just saying that if an Armsman/Warrior/Hero can hit an assassin for 500 with a style around 0.9 or 1.0 growth rate, there is no reason a zerker should not be able to hit a caster for 600-800 with a style you can use every 10 minutes and it costs 10 RA points and you CAN't spam it, you get one chance for it every 10 mins and you can miss or it can get blocked. The only reason it landed some huge hits is because berserker can have a maximum crit while in vendo, so 600-800 on a CASTER translates to possible 1200-1600.

You should not get caught like that on a patch level with no charge anyway and for every 1 shot zerkers got, they wasted many styles cause often they crit for 5 or 50 damage, and not max crit. Just saying, if we take into account zerker has to use 2 usable abilities and one of them costing 10 RA points and if we compare it to the damage heavy tanks can deal with a 2h to certain leather wearing classes, I don't think the damage is outrageous. It's the vendo mode that gives it devastating potential.

Again, no good group or player will complain about this except this Pweet guy. Supposedly this dude was in Requiem and they were a damn solid group, so he's gotta be someone's dumb cousin or something. Even on uth1 there were times when I 2-shoted a bard by getting 2 maximum crit snowsqualls in a row. It was rare, but it was possible. Ofc we had DI there but if they didn't have it up I'd get lucky sometimes on some crazy hits in vendo. I'm not saying Tundra or similar styles were balanced, but it's not outrageous to think a style that costs RA points and has a relatively long timer allows you to do like 200 more damage on a caster than you would do on a leather wearing class with a normal style you can spam. Again, it's vendo that gives it that extra kick anyway.

You still not read the thread that was mentioned, it shows this was done with LA.
And it's not 800 or whatever near this, and is in no way near armsman max damage. Those hits never bothered people. It was the single 1200-1600 hits that bothered people.

But doesn't matter, we are worlds apart. I don't think 1-shotting should ever be a thing, even rare.
Not really worth debating, since you wouldn't change stance and neither would I.

But the RA was not correct, simply because no data were around to make it correct.
The RA is not correct now, simply because no data is around to make it correct.

I'm not a fan of one shotting and all the huge crits were done with the 2h, even Flump was hitting for 1200-1600 and I know for a fact that he used a Dragonstorm. Also, I never said it was right. I said that if Armsmen/Warriors/Heroes can do around 500 damage with an anytime style they need no RAs for and can spam on a leather wearing class, it should not be out of realm of possibility that a zerker can hit a CASTER for 200 more damage with a style which you need RAs for and you only get one chance every 10 mins.

So in other words, if Armsman/Warrior/Hero gets lucky on their absolute maximum crit, they can easily do 750 damage on a leather wearing class if that guy doesn't have an AF charge up and by using an anytime style. So if a zerker spends 10 points to use a style once every 10 mins, we'll assume that style is a bit stronger, no? Now let's assume they're hitting cloth casters and put their base damage to 600-700 on a good hit, it's normal that sometimes they get super lucky while in vendo and get a max crit and double that damage. Again, it's the vendo mode that made it sick. Go spam your highest growth rate styles with a warrior/hero/armsman on cloth casters and you'll see what type of damage you do. If someone spends 10 points to get a style they can use once 10 mins ofc it does a bit more damage and a lucky vendo crit doubles it.

Anyway, I don't care about Tundra but there are still paranoid schizos implying Tundra got someone high RR and not their playing time and the fact that they came out even after wiping and they didn't cry on forum.

@Satiah

Yep, Ogmora was frequently 2 shotting infis and nightshades on uth1 after slam and Blackbeard was impaling my hunter on uth1 and even did up to 600-700 damage to my skald with a crit. Same on uth1, the other day I did 400+ damage with 2h provoke with my rr3 warrior on Spymistress. So imagine if I were rr6 and used a 1.0 growth rate style? You know mid base growth rates kinda suck compared to say Polearm styles anyway, only LA and H2H have really decent growth rates.

Valfar wrote:So in other words, if Armsman/Warrior/Hero gets lucky on their absolute maximum crit, they can easily do 750 damage on a leather wearing class if that guy doesn't have an AF charge up and by using an anytime style.

Prove it.