Dual Damage Type Spec

threer
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Postby threer » May 09, 2018 15:02

I am considering a dual-damage-type spec (44 Polearm, 42 Shields, 34 Slash, 34 Thrust, 10 Parry).
How would this spec affect my damage compared to a standard spec (50 Polearm, 42 Shields, 39 Slash, 12 Thrust, 13 Parry)?

The standard spec does more damage to armor which is vulnerable to Slash (Scale, Studded) due to its higher Polearm skill (and higher Slash skill at lower ranks).
The dual-damage-types spec does more damage to Thrust vulnerable armor (Chain) which should easily compensate the lower skill levels.

So I think it comes down to Reinforced armor where Thrust neutral and Slash is resistent.
Which spec hits Bards and Blademasters harder, dual-damage-type with Thrust or standard spec with Slash?

Slash and Crush would be another option, just with less skill points due to missing AT on the Crush line.

Of course, there are more pros and cons than just the damage. For instance, standard spec has a higher weapon skill, easier SC templates, one more Polearm style and no need for a weapon swap. but I see the damage as the main factor. Isn't it?

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Requin
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Postby Requin » May 09, 2018 20:38

You would get rekt in duels.
Duel>RvR
Reminder to Self: Quality over Quantity, what is the Value here?

threer
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Postby threer » May 12, 2018 12:37

Does nobody have experience with two damage types?

Ownnyn
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Postby Ownnyn » May 12, 2018 15:23

threer wrote:Does nobody have experience with two damage types?
Our guild armsman, several are dual spec. Grevard, from unflinching went tri spec and dropped shield. Splitquick i think is either dual or tri spec, not sure.

The idea behind it is taking advantages of the weaknesses. In some cases thats going from a 10-20% penalty to 10% bonus. In the extreme cases, going from 80% damage to 110% damage is pretty big.

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threer
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Postby threer » May 12, 2018 17:13

Thanks for the input! The downside is, that you have to sacrifice some Polearm spec (44 instead of 50) when you still want 42 Shield. I don't know how this translates into damage-percentages, but I assume, that it is nowhere near 20-30%. :-)

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Byun
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Postby Byun » May 13, 2018 11:29

Why do you want to drop polearm? You'd lose your lvl 50 style which deals good dmg on top of a 31 sec snare. Just drop the parry and thrust/slash. Obviously your dmg will be a bit worse in lower RR since your thrust/slash will be only around 41 with a proper template and not counting in +realmrank points.
I always advice to go for standard slash spec til rr6 or even 7 til you get a hang of your class, since most people ****** up positioning and priorities during a fight, so it doesnt even matter if you thought about swapping your weapon to get some extra dmg. And you'll also have more +rr on your 2 dmg lines which should boost your overall dmg decently

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threer
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Postby threer » May 13, 2018 16:29

I stopped planning specs for RR7 a long time ago. It is just way to far away.

However, you make a very good point! The spec points I get from lowering Polearms will be split into two lines (Slash and Thrust), so I only get half the value as points in Thrust are worthless when I have a Slash weapon equipped and vice versa. Points in Polearm always count.
This doesn't answer the question about dual spec being vailable at low RR, but it puts a questionmark on the 44 Polearms.

P.S.: I do not mind switching weapons, increases the fun with the character. :-)

Ownnyn
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Postby Ownnyn » May 15, 2018 18:59

Isnt weapon damage capped at 51 composite?

So 44+7 is the same damage as 50+11?

Additionally

Lvl 44 style defenders revenge has higher growth rate than lvl 50 style defenders aegis.

And for snares you got lvl 18 anytime snare. Lower damage, but spamable so you dont lose snare every other hit, or if they turn on u.

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threer
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Postby threer » May 16, 2018 14:18

As far as I understand the composite weapon skill theory, this does not relate to the line which is used for styles.
So 44+7 Polearm does not have the same style damage as 50+11 Polearm, but using Polearm-styles with 39+11 Slash is the same damage as 50+11 Slash. May be worth to test this on the target dummy!?

Defender's Aegis (50) may be a trade-off between Defender's Revenge (44) and Crippling Blow (18). I could see situations where you need the damage, but the target would run away without at least some occasionally snares.
I am not sure, if it is really needed, so it is not in my personal pro/con calculation.

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Prettypinkunicorns
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Postby Prettypinkunicorns » May 20, 2018 10:23

Copy paste of live-servers fridays Grab-bag:
(This is how it also works at patch 1.65)

What composite weapon specialization does a RR5+ Blademaster need to maximize Celtic Dual style damage?

In other words: if I'm *only using Celtic Dual styles*, do I need 50, 51, 52, or some other number of composite (spec+skill items+RR) pierce/blunt/blades to cap damage and minimize variance?

This was answered in March’s Grab Bag last year:

There should be no difference in damage when using a Left Axe, Dual Wield, or Celtic Dual style whether the main weapon spec is 50+11 or 40+11. In other words, once you reach the 51 composite on Sword, Slash, Blades etc. and are using a dual-wielding style your damage won’t be increased by adding more Sword, Slash, or Blades spec.

However, your Left Axe, Dual Wield, and Celtic Dual specs do have their damage (and in the case of Celtic Dual and Dual Wield their offhand swing chance) increased with a higher specialization in them. A Mercenary with 25+11 Dual Wield and 51 composite Slash will hit for less than a Mercenary with 50+11 Dual Wield and 51 composite Slash when using a Dual Wield style; they will also swing with their offhand less often.



In short, styles in any specline gains increased damage above 51 composite spec.

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imamizer
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Postby imamizer » May 21, 2018 00:47

Melee damage calculation
Effectiveness of Weapon spec:
1 to 2/3rds of level = 25-100% dmg
2/3rds to 100% of level = 75-125% dmg
100%+ = 100-150% dmg

That scale is linear.

Your damage continues to grow if your weapons spec is above your level, but slower.
I believe each weapon spec point above your level adds about 0.66% to your damage.


Basically your damage will have a penalty till rr7 with that spec. 50 pole style is kinda pointless for 8man. 2 hit combo starting from behind with a slow weapon while you have an anytime snare? It has a better duration but it takes ages to peel an assist train with it. Especially against red pbt. :hammer: Also damage difference between 44-50 polearm is hard to notice since it only boosts your style bonus. It's something like 4% which is nothing compared to dealing bonus dmg both on chain and scale armor. You can start using that spec at RR7 and drop slash+thrust every rank to increase your polearm skill. With full AT you would have 31 slash+thrust and 49 polearm at RR10.

threer
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Postby threer » May 21, 2018 09:01

Very interesting, but what does "Weapon spec" mean in context of an Armsman? There are two Lines involved: a) Slash/Thrust and b) Polearms.

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imamizer
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Postby imamizer » May 21, 2018 11:55

That is the one handed spec line related to your polearm damage type. It's the same with two handed, dual wield and celtic dual.

threer
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Postby threer » Jun 05, 2018 08:52

imamizer wrote:That is the one handed spec line related to your polearm damage type. It's the same with two handed, dual wield and celtic dual.


Or is it not? My understanding was, that with Albion two-handed weaponlines (2-handed and Polearms) the minimum damage is based on the Base-line Spec and everything else (maximum damage, style-damage, weapon-skill) is based on the two-handed line.
This would be in contrast to e.g. Dual Wield where both (minimum and maximum) are based on the base line.
If this is true, base-line skill points have only half the value with Polearm compared to Dual Wield.

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imamizer
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Postby imamizer » Jun 05, 2018 13:15

threer wrote:
imamizer wrote:That is the one handed spec line related to your polearm damage type. It's the same with two handed, dual wield and celtic dual.


Or is it not? My understanding was, that with Albion two-handed weaponlines (2-handed and Polearms) the minimum damage is based on the Base-line Spec and everything else (maximum damage, style-damage, weapon-skill) is based on the two-handed line.
This would be in contrast to e.g. Dual Wield where both (minimum and maximum) are based on the base line.
If this is true, base-line skill points have only half the value with Polearm compared to Dual Wield.

That's how I remember it too. Min dmg from 1h, max from 2h spec for polearms and twohanded. With that logic you should do 25-150% dmg using a crush polearm with 1 crush and composite polearm spec. I'm not sure if this is the case but it sounds easy to test. Of course this numbers are only about the unstyled dmg. Style dmg bonus comes the line of that style. For DW both min and max dmg should be related to 1h spec while DW increases bonus dmg from DW styles and offhand proc rate.

Sİnce there is no point of going too low on Polearm spec, 1h skill is the only thing to consider for more dmg. Because your Polearm skill will always be higher than your level. And if you chose to play with a spec something like 21 polearm, you don't expect to hit like a truck anyways.

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