BC BUFF values

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Requin
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Postby Requin » Feb 05, 2018 20:26

Hey the different character planners have different buff values.
I found the one from nixian has the buff value for dex/qui that Uthgard uses.

But its strange.

On my level 20 hunter I have 12 in BC so i get access to the +19 dex/qui buff, which gives me +22 in actual buff value.
I asked a hunter lvl 47 who has 32 in BC and he told me his buff gave him +42 instead of +34. (+42 is the 40 BC buff value from nixian).

The values are all over the place.
22/19=1.157 actual vs planned
42/34=1.23 actual vs planned
20/12=1.66 mylevel/myBC
47/32=1.468 hislevel/hisBC

I cant see the correlation.

Is there a source for the actual buff value that should be used and what is the actual vs tooltip value growth from? :hammer:

Added Later:
Similarly I get +31 AF from a +21 AF buff.
with only 12 in BC as a level 20.
Last edited by Requin on Feb 06, 2018 01:14, edited 2 times in total.
Reminder to Self: Quality over Quantity, what is the Value here?

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Requin
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Postby Requin » Feb 05, 2018 20:31

I found this from a web archive of catacombs website in 2004/2005:

Lines[75048]=new linePT('Buff (Self, Dexterity/Quickness)','Increases the target\'s Dexterity and Quickness, which will cause it to do more damage and be more effective in melee combat as well as cast spells faster.',75,0)
Spells[25]=new spellPT("Nimbleness of the Lynx",5,75048,75,"+14 DEX/QUI ",75,"10 PP",'','3.0s','','','20m','')
Spells[26]=new spellPT("Agility of the Lynx",12,75048,75,"+19 DEX/QUI ",75,"20 PP",'','3.0s','','','20m','')
Spells[27]=new spellPT("Dexterity of the Lynx",21,75048,75,"+26 DEX/QUI ",75,"34 PP",'','3.0s','','','20m','')
Spells[28]=new spellPT("Quickness of the Lynx",30,75048,75,"+34 DEX/QUI ",75,"50 PP",'','3.0s','','','20m','')
Spells[29]=new spellPT("Alacrity of the Lynx",40,75048,75,"+42 DEX/QUI ",75,"68 PP",'','3.0s','','','20m','')
Spells[30]=new spellPT("Heart of the Lynx",50,75048,75,"+50 DEX/QUI ",75,"86 PP",'','3.0s','','','20m','')


So these are the values from Nixian charbuilder.
What is left to explain is the growth or the cap of buff. How come I get more points than the tooltip says, and why with 32 in BC you get +42 dex instead of +34?
Reminder to Self: Quality over Quantity, what is the Value here?

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Requin
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Postby Requin » Feb 06, 2018 00:10

I found this: (french source)

Les caractéristiques entre 1-350 pts.

Effets cumulatifs (sauf DEXT et VIVA)
----------------------------
1-50 : -0.5% par point<50 (-1% tous les 2 points)
50-250 : +0.5% par point (+1% tous les 2 points)
250-350 : +0.25% par point (+1% tous les 4 points)

DEXT et VIVA
1-50 -0.1% par point<50 (-1% tous les 10 points)
50-250 +0.1% par point (+1% tous les 10 points)
250-350 +0.05% par point (+1% tous les 20 points)

150 -> 200 : 0.50 * 50 = +25%
200 -> 300 : 0.25 * 100 = +25%
300 -> 350 : 0.20 * 50 = +10%
donc un total de +60%.


SOURCES DE BUFF: 4 possibles. Limité par son level.
----------------
Il existe simple buff et double buff "combo buffs", c'est à dire qui augmente deux caractéristiques en meme temps.

SOURCE LIMITE
Buffs simples : niveau x 1
Buffs doubles : niveau x 1.5
Objets : niveau x 1.5
Abilités RvR +6/lvl, max:+30


Meaning that buff have a growth rate which depends on your actual stats.

Test:
My Hunter has 103 dex and 80 quickness
183*0.1=18.3% buff
19*1.183=22.477 which could be right.

Test2:
Other hunter was level 47 and should be dex capped.
The cap at lvl 47 is 70
So let us say he made a viking with +10 dex +10 str +10 qui.
He should have 60+60+70+70=280 stats
128% *34 = 43.52 which seems odd

But actually we know that the cap for spec buffs is 1.25% (93.75/75=1.25)so
125%*34=42.5 which checks out.

So actually the buff growth formula is
[BonusBuffValue]=[StatedValue]+IF((Dex+Qui)*0.01%>25%,25%,(Dex+Qui)*0.01%)

The source was a little wrong but lead me to believe that this formula is the one used on Uthgard.
Last edited by Requin on Feb 06, 2018 00:50, edited 2 times in total.
Reminder to Self: Quality over Quantity, what is the Value here?

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Requin
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Postby Requin » Feb 06, 2018 00:19

For ease of research i will link the source:
http://la.horde.sauvage.free.fr/pages/statistiques/caracteristiques.htm
And translate this part:

Buff Bonus:
For stats between 1 and 350 points

Cumulative effects (except Dex and Qui):
From 1 to 50: -0.5% per point under 50 (-1% every 2 points)
From 50 to 250: +0.5% per point (+1% every 2 points)
From 250 to 350: +0.25% per point (+1% every 4 points)

For Dex and Qui:
From 1 to 50: -0.1% per point under 50 (-1% every 10 points)
From 50 to 250: +0.1% per point (+1% every 10 points)
From 250 to 350: +0.5% per point (+1% every 20 points)
Reminder to Self: Quality over Quantity, what is the Value here?

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Requin
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Postby Requin » Feb 06, 2018 01:04

I saw this issue on the Issue tracker, which is similar to mine:
https://www2.uthgard.net/tracker/issue/1235/@/Higher_Buffs_Value_and_Stat_Cap

Its a bit of a Necro post! but I have been told not to make duplicates :D
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Requin
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Postby Requin » Feb 06, 2018 01:08

Could any hunter contribute to this topic:

List your level, the tooltip of your casted dex/qui spell, you BC spec and your dex and qui stats?
Followed by the actual buff you get from the spell.

Thanks in advance.
Reminder to Self: Quality over Quantity, what is the Value here?

Laberintica
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Postby Laberintica » Feb 09, 2018 03:32

Buff value is *1.25.
+14 , 19, 26 , 34, 42, 50.

So at level 50 with the level:
30 bc buff= +34 *1.25= 42 d/q total.
40 bc buff= +42*1.25= 52 d/q total
50 bc buff = +50*1.25= 62 d/q total



Remember that each level has a cap for buffs. I don't remember the exact cap for each level, but that's why at each level if you keep recasting your self buff it keeps going up until you reach the max value for your buff and level.

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Postby Requin » Feb 09, 2018 09:50

Alright thanks for your input. (btw my hunter with the lvl 12 buff +19 dex/qui gets +22 and 19*1.25=23.xx thats why i couldnt just accept x1.25)
Also I wonder where is this buff bonus coming from?
Is it normal?

I wanted to make a hunter and cap quickness but then I have to recreate now that I see that the buff will bring me over the quickness cap...

So I wanted to be clear on where it is coming from, which class is affected, do relic contribute to it, what's the exact calculation of this bonus (simply x1.25 or as taken from source in posts above?), etc..

I made a post on the issue tracker also.
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Postby Requin » Feb 09, 2018 11:38

I tired without any +item stats bonus and the buff values stayed the same.
Which either mean the change (-30dex-13qui) was not enough to make an impact, or the +itemstats have no effect on the buff bonus.

I would go with the second proposition.

So trying to figure out where the buff bonus is really coming from:

Source i found:
Baseline buffs vary from 75% of delve to 125% of delve based on your augmentation spec relative to the level of the buff. At 2/3 the level of the buff you get 125% of the delve value. Basically this means that you if you can get your Augmentation up to ~33 or 34 effective, you can cap all of your baseline buffs. Moller has jewelry that he puts on while buffing to get myself +11 Aug, for 31 effective aug, which gets me +5 on my str/dex/con buffs. (from Moller Healer TL)


This concerns buffing classes not really self-buffs since you can't be at 2/3 the level of a self buff you are already at or above the level of a self buff, since all selfbuff are specline buffs not baseline buffs.
Reminder to Self: Quality over Quantity, what is the Value here?

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Postby Requin » Feb 09, 2018 12:34

Another Explanation I could come up with is that the buffs adapt to your level, until they cap at the level of the next buff.
Which would mean that the lvl 12 buff (+19 dex/qui) grows per level until it caps at the level 21 buff (+26dex/qui), after which you would need to increase your BC skill.

Let us say that you get a self buff bonus of +2.5% per level above your spell level:

at level 20 casting the level 12 spell I would get a bonus of +8*+2.5%=+20%
19*1.2=22.8 rounded down to 22

This would mean that If I keep using the level 12 buff of +19 dex/qui I would get it capped at +26dex/qui at level:

19*(1+(x-12)*2.5%)>=26

we would hit +26dex/qui from the level 12 spell at level 27 and will be blocked by cap starting at level 29 (27.075>26)

Similarly, the lvl 30 buff of +34 would reach the max at level 40 and be capped at level 41. (43.35>42)

Could be tested when I level up.

If the test it conclusive, we can confirm that the self buff bonus is linear and growing at 2.5% per level until reaching the ceiling value of the next selfbuff value.
The lvl 50 buff would have no cap except the spec buff cap bonus of 1.5x level

It should look something like this: (level at bottom, value at left side)
Image

We can see that the lvl 40 spell is not worth it at all, quickly reaching cap, while the lvl 50 spell would make an exponential jump and give +76 at level 51.

You could stay at 12 BC until level 28 w/o losing on selfbuffs values
You could stay at 21 BC until level 35 w/o losing on selfbuffs values
You could stay at 30 BC until level 41 w/o losing on selfbuffs values

Yet all of this does not explain why I get +31 AF from a +21 AF buff, which if same formula applies should be capped at next AF buff of +24 AF.
Reminder to Self: Quality over Quantity, what is the Value here?

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Postby Requin » Feb 09, 2018 18:26

Still +22 dex/qui at level 21. So nothing proved.
Reminder to Self: Quality over Quantity, what is the Value here?

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Postby Requin » Feb 11, 2018 00:30

Strange it became +23 dex/qui today.
Reminder to Self: Quality over Quantity, what is the Value here?

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Requin
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Postby Requin » Feb 11, 2018 00:38

I guess there was a bug that got fixed to just buffvalue*1.25 now, maybe.
Reminder to Self: Quality over Quantity, what is the Value here?


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