Liah gets it.

@wonshot regarding 8man; if you know, you know. Yes this game has always boasted a fantastic RvR experience, but let’s be fair, there is ZERO skill in zerging. This is why 8man players are (in general) reluctant to zerg. The enjoyable part is actually being able to out-skill other like minded players. Timers and relics of course play a role but that’s just an accepted point.
Albs have owned many relics for a long time now, and fiercely defend them, but why? So u can hit a door 20% harder?

No matter what Romu says about the technicalities of keep warfare, it’s dull. And requires no skill. Although my admiration of how patient he must be dealing with so many people on a regular basis. How much variation do you guys have on a keep fight though nreally?

8man fights are very rarely the same, can last 15 seconds or 10 minutes.eg; My group fought Ellefrieds group at mmg and the fight ended near silo at amg. I should note that we lost, but it was a great fight. We were able to analyze what we should have done better at certain moments of the fight, and I look forward to fighting them again.
Zerg fight strategy? Bring more people.

I suppose I hope people get as excited about running up Beno ramp

shatton1987 wrote:Liah gets it.

@wonshot regarding 8man; if you know, you know. Yes this game has always boasted a fantastic RvR experience, but let’s be fair, there is ZERO skill in zerging. This is why 8man players are (in general) reluctant to zerg. The enjoyable part is actually being able to out-skill other like minded players. Timers and relics of course play a role but that’s just an accepted point.
Albs have owned many relics for a long time now, and fiercely defend them, but why? So u can hit a door 20% harder?

No matter what Romu says about the technicalities of keep warfare, it’s dull. And requires no skill. Although my admiration of how patient he must be dealing with so many people on a regular basis. How much variation do you guys have on a keep fight though nreally?

8man fights are very rarely the same, can last 15 seconds or 10 minutes.eg; My group fought Ellefrieds group at mmg and the fight ended near silo at amg. I should note that we lost, but it was a great fight. We were able to analyze what we should have done better at certain moments of the fight, and I look forward to fighting them again.
Zerg fight strategy? Bring more people.

I suppose I hope people get as excited about running up Beno ramp

You are totally right in your whole post Raf. My personal experience with zerging is that after 10 minutes i get bored AF, start looking at the internet and slacking in general. It bores me endlessly as there are no challenge and no skill involved in zerging..

Narrowminded to say it takes no skill.

All 8man is about is having voice, right setup, and play with regular group.
We know this is not true, there is a lot more involved.

It takes skill to run a zerg, but agree it takes little skill being part of a zerg.

But just like being part of a zerg doesn't have a very high skill requirement, neither does being part of an 8man with a core of skilled people. Skill carries others quite far, just a lot harder to hide your lack of skill in a group than in a zerg.

It takes zero skill to run a zerg.

It takes patience. Big difference.

There is also a difference between running an 8man, and running an 8man that wins fights.

Your comment is referencing the former.

shatton1987 wrote:Liah gets it.

@wonshot regarding 8man; if you know, you know. Yes this game has always boasted a fantastic RvR experience, but let’s be fair, there is ZERO skill in zerging. This is why 8man players are (in general) reluctant to zerg. The enjoyable part is actually being able to out-skill other like minded players. Timers and relics of course play a role but that’s just an accepted point.
Albs have owned many relics for a long time now, and fiercely defend them, but why? So u can hit a door 20% harder?

No matter what Romu says about the technicalities of keep warfare, it’s dull. And requires no skill. Although my admiration of how patient he must be dealing with so many people on a regular basis. How much variation do you guys have on a keep fight though nreally?

8man fights are very rarely the same, can last 15 seconds or 10 minutes.eg; My group fought Ellefrieds group at mmg and the fight ended near silo at amg. I should note that we lost, but it was a great fight. We were able to analyze what we should have done better at certain moments of the fight, and I look forward to fighting them again.
Zerg fight strategy? Bring more people.

I suppose I hope people get as excited about running up Beno ramp

Zerg fights are also rarely the same. You always fight 8vs8, our fights have never the same numbers. It maybe that a single person is not so important than in 8vs8, you can do more errors. But you will win no fight if you have no people who know what they do. Reducing zerg strategy to bring more people is like reducing 8vs8 to higher RR wins. It is one factor, but not the only.

Think we just play different games, you play an arena ego shooter, i play a big real time strategy game with myself in the first row. Your style is not better than mine, its just different. And it needs different skills. Its a pity that so many 8vs8 players are so narrow minded that they cant see that and think their way is the only way to play this game.

If I’m so narrow minded how come I’ve never seen Romu run anything but 32+?

shatton1987 wrote:If I’m so narrow minded how come I’ve never seen Romu run anything but 32+?

Because Romu is a 2-Hand Pala which has no room in 8vs8. But you may have seen my cleric in 8vs8, but you will see no killspam from him

whatever free bump

I play SM. One of the most maligned classes. so the ‘doesn’t fit in 8v’ doesn’t wash with me I’m afraid.

I agree with you we play different games.

My game relies on fighting enemies.

Your game wouldn’t change if you never saw an enemy ever again.

Mids take keeps and log.

Albs log in take them back.

Wrong or right?

shatton1987 wrote:I agree with you we play different games.

My game relies on fighting enemies.

Your game wouldn’t change if you never saw an enemy ever again.

Mids take keeps and log.

Albs log in take them back.

Wrong or right?

You play the game with different view on what is fun.
You like to play with a select group of people and see which fights you can win, Romu likes to play with many different people and does not care if they're lvl 40, templated or want to RvR on a gimp class (and sorry, grab a thane and you can be compared to 8man on a 2-hand pally, sm is a lot more usefull).

Romu puts people who would never ever go to the RvR zone without a BG out there, and that creates RvR, just not what you want.

Neither way is right or wrong, it's just different. What is wrong is to regard one way as the wrong way, and only see your way as the right way to play the game.


You are dilusional if you think stopping to run a zerg would create more 8man group action, or suddenly make keep raiders form pug 8man groups on go Emain, it wont happen unless you can convince them they have a winning chance vs "well-oiled" RR6+ guild groups.

shatton1987 wrote:I agree with you we play different games.

My game relies on fighting enemies.

Your game wouldn’t change if you never saw an enemy ever again.

Mids take keeps and log.

Albs log in take them back.

Wrong or right?

I dont like that quote-answer game, so one last answer from me:
No, you are totally wrong. Without enemies no one from us would go outside. We are out for defending albion, whatever it takes. We have huge fights with enemies every day. We build traps with our zerg, sometimes we walk into a trap. Sometimes we raid keeps with enemies inside, somtimes we retreat at a keep if too many deffers inside. Sometimes we raid empty keeps, sometimes we get rushed from behind when we raid keeps. Sometimes we win, sometimes we loose. Sometimes we have to clean Sauvage from so called 8v8 groups that farm solo and random people, you remember? Sometimes we have very nice fights against good 8vs8 groups like playfulls or elfriede, kiting us over a whole zone. Sometimes we have fights on open field with 50vs50, sometimes we rush with 50vs1.

And you fight 8v8 arena fights, day for day, all day long. Would your game change if we remove all keeps, all relics and all random player that do not 8vs8? What do you think why 8vs8 is starving? Most groups say that they get bored.

@Liah they still don’t get it..
1- I’m not telling anyone to stop zerging. My criticism is of ‘take all keeps and log’ crowd.
2-I’m happy that u zerg because a lot of the time we find you and make a lot of eps from wiping you.
3-spivo pls quote where I wrote that ending zergs would bring people to 8v8. I don’t believe this. A lot of these zergers fear real Pvp.
I’m not sure WHY they fear real pvp tho.. that will remain a mystery I guess. Maybe it has to do with those rr6GuildGroups being more ‘skillful’?

But to repeat (1).
Zerg all you want. Please do. Just don’t log or change realm the moment u have taken all the keeps.
(By the way Romu, that isn’t aimed at you. I know you, unlike mids, will actually fight)

to not include my group in a group that kites you is ridiculous. There is even video evidence of it lmao. Try again.

shatton1987 wrote:I’m not sure WHY they fear real pvp tho.. that will remain a mystery I guess. Maybe it has to do with those rr6GuildGroups being more ‘skillful’?

Not sure if you want a pad on the back...?
Yes, your group is more skillful than them, happy?

But that does not change that you wont get them out to do 8man, or non-keep PvP unless you can convince them they have a chance.
I wont be able to convince them, and neither will you by posting here calling them cowards (or implying it). This is not WW1 where a white feather shamed people to go to enlist.

You have setup, routine, experience, often even voice vs some not using it, RR, and <clap clap> skill.
How do you convince casual players to come out to fight you?
Shaming them wont help, I can promise you.


Back on Live I was grabbed, by some fluke of luck, by two Ausie 8man guilds. Still don't understand why they picked me, I was no good to begin with, and even after time I was still no where as good as some of them.
But they taught me the basics, and that made me, a player who had never used voice, rarely used /assist, into a player who loved 8man groups.
They could have called me a coward for only fighting in zergs, but I don't think it would have had the same effect really.