Well I think that response kind of sums up why the server is in the state it's in now. Refusal from the staff to budge on anything (nearly), and essentially telling the community to be exclusive rather than inclusive. To be more elitist instead of more casual friendly. :\

Severian wrote:Well I think that response kind of sums up why the server is in the state it's in now. Refusal from the staff to budge on anything (nearly), and essentially telling the community to be exclusive rather than inclusive. To be more elitist instead of more casual friendly. :\

well this post also sums up the mentallity of some ppl in the forum. twisting words of GM posts just for the sake of blaming the staff...
for you, he was NOT serious...

Abydos wrote:There are ripple effects to everything that do shake to the core of DAOC. Try defending a relic against a zerg that has constant instaport?

absolutely agree. the zerg would still have to run to the relickeep.....so there would be some delay. however....not asking for instantport but having a constant lets say 3 min porter would help so much.

you can call it bad leadership or just bad luck in general but on some evenings we didnt find any action so we had to switch zones a couple of times.....and while doing that some of us missed the porter several times. i am sure we can all agree that running around for one hour without any fights can be very devastating for the whole grp.

anyways. huge /bow to everyone who came out in odins tonight! enjoyed all fights although we screwed up very badly on at least two

Severian wrote:Well I think that response kind of sums up why the server is in the state it's in now. Refusal from the staff to budge on anything (nearly),

Just for the record:

"Port is too long"

Staff: Reduces port to 7 min

"Port is too long still! My group mates miss it!"

Staff: Add second port for those who can't be bothered to pay attention or punctual

"Port is STILL too long!"

Staff: Reduce port to as low as 2 minutes

"Port is STILL too long! I have to wait 7 minutes because 1 person missed port"

Ok lets stop.

First off, you could run as 7. But you are choosing to wait, because you'll feel more successful. Fine, I get that. I get that it also sucks to have to wait, and that there are a number of reasons why said person might have missed port. Heck, that could be the first time the person missed port since 2001! but it just happened and it sucks. It doesn't feel good. I get it.

The honest question is "Where does it end?" -- in this case, the request is an INSTANT port. I already AGREED that we had this in the past and I actually support it. I said we've done this in the past (with a laziness fee of 100g of course).

And in the course of agreeing with you again, you decide to say we won't budge? This is an honest question: What's with that? Was it a misreading of what was written? Did I communicate poorly? What was it about my post that led you down to sadfaceemoticon-ville?

Abydos wrote:

Severian wrote:Well I think that response kind of sums up why the server is in the state it's in now. Refusal from the staff to budge on anything (nearly),

Just for the record:

"Port is too long"

Staff: Reduces port to 7 min

"Port is too long still! My group mates miss it!"

Staff: Add second port for those who can't be bothered to pay attention or punctual

"Port is STILL too long!"

Staff: Reduce port to as low as 2 minutes

"Port is STILL too long! I have to wait 7 minutes because 1 person missed port"

Ok lets stop.

First off, you could run as 7. But you are choosing to wait, because you'll feel more successful. Fine, I get that. I get that it also sucks to have to wait, and that there are a number of reasons why said person might have missed port. Heck, that could be the first time the person missed port since 2001! but it just happened and it sucks. It doesn't feel good. I get it.

The honest question is "Where does it end?" -- in this case, the request is an INSTANT port. I already AGREED that we had this in the past and I actually support it. I said we've done this in the past (with a laziness fee of 100g of course).

And in the course of agreeing with you again, you decide to say we won't budge? This is an honest question: What's with that? Was it a misreading of what was written? Did I communicate poorly? What was it about my post that led you down to sadfaceemoticon-ville?

i agree, less qq more pewpew. the ppl who complain about the lack of qol are never satisfied even when the staff accommodates to the players' needs as abydos has explained ^

No idea why long port is a problem. People wait for RAs to be up anyway!

Joking aside, long port is fine. Short port creates annoying problems as well (cant remember, is “died recently” a part of this patch lvl?

I see other problems as way more important, but this is not the thread for that.

Would be nice to have a map that gets smaller and smaller, as in PUG

But on a side note, yes something needs to be added/done the quick up the action.

Spivo wrote:Short port creates annoying problems as well.

I see other problems as way more important, but this is not the thread for that.

and that would be?

sure there are always other problems and people have different opinions. but to me decreasing the porter timer is probably the easiest option to reinforce the action. getting more ppl into the frontier zones is another story......maybe a RvR event would help?

on a side note: kudos to the GMs and staff for providing us with the chance to play on this server. i never would have expected to have such an amazing experience.....and on top of it being part of numerous epic fights!

Shadori_xo wrote:

Spivo wrote:Short port creates annoying problems as well.

and that would be?

Relic raids are harder to do when defenders have instaport, and also if they can instaport to their Milegate to intercept.
XP'ing in frontier is not as fun when you actually kill the annoying ganker (after he killed half your group), only to have him back in 5 minutes (this is including travel time).
CK take in BG is hard when defenders can instaport.

The worst thing about slow port, is the risk of the few groups you fight against decides to log because they think you wont come back.
But the best solution to this is to find ways to increase RvR activity.

Just like the solution to slow leveling is not i50 (some will disagree), the solution for slow RvR is not instaport. In my most humble and honest opinion.

Just make it 3m ports all the time like you have during NA. No instant port so the relic raiders are happy, and 3m is short enough if you miss port you're not twiddling your thumbs too long.

Also there are still times when the gothis port and even if you're wearing your neck you miss it. Its not all on the players some of it is on bugs that have yet to be addressed by staff.

NA rvr is pretty much dead and euro pop now is consistently below 1k during primetime (except for some weekend madness). Summer is over so you can stop using that excuse, without changes players will not be coming back. There needs to be ways to increase RvR activity for the people who still are trying to play, like others said running around in empty zones for 45 or sitting on the pad isn't fun. If it isn't fun people will pick a different game that is.

I think what should be done here on Uth 2 (nothing new here):

- Lower the port timers to rvr to 5 minutes all day long (maybe lower it even to 3 min during US primetime): A wipe should still be a punishment and no insta rvr. But wasting more time on a pad than waiting on a bus or train in RL is too much.

- More porters in the homeland (like from capitol to housing etc.), at least the porters given with SI would even be livelike to our patchlevel *cough*: Wasting time on horse is so outdated, we all have better things to do with our lives meanwhile, and it serves absolutely no purpose. Who is new to daoc can still ride a horse once and enjoy the ride, I promise no one will do it twice.
And the the faster relic defense is no argument at all with this. Everyone seems to have a house(bind) that allows him to wipe/insta port from anywhere to everywhere you can port from hz anyway. I was surpised at last blue sunday, not one tell how to reach vindsaul, instead the whole zerg stood there rdy and without sickness in less than 2 minutes after wipe.

- Some serious rvr bugs still in the tracker: Fix them.

- Give a global XP boost of 30% everywhere. Again nothing insta, no free level and such. You should have to work for your level 50, but as it is now it seems too much for a lot. I don't care for myself, I am done with leveling. XP loot is a nice thing that will come soon I read, but that will not be enough.

- *not very important*: Implement back your location dot on the map (only if it is not much work, like just comment out the part of code that removes it): I mean again, I don't care at all, but relvinian would come back . And I never understood why you removed it anyway. For the epic feeling to got lost somewhere? Yeah, kind of fun for 5 seconds the first time but...

If relic is missing - port = 15 min (or whatever), else port = 2 min. Done

@pweet

Didn't twist his words. I actually asked a question initially.

@Abydos

Your initial response may have been tongue in cheek, but the problem is, people generally think this of the staff (catering to elite players, disregarding casual players). So a joke about it, or a joke that could be taken as favoring elitists is probably not a good idea. I'm assuming you weren't being completely serious, but if taken seriously, it definitely would have bad implications. Worse than just simply giving instant porters. Maybe just clarifying what you meant exactly by your response would be helpful, especially the part about "enabling players that miss ports."

What, as a player, should I be doing to change other player's (usually) benign behavior?

That's not a good question though.

The better question is:

What can change about the design to avoid the above?

Instant porters and simple things like that should have been in from the beginning, in my opinion. But especially now due to the very low population in NA.

Severian wrote:
Your initial response may have been tongue in cheek, but the problem is, people generally think this of the staff (catering to elite players, disregarding casual players).

Lets clear up the misconception about staff (where does that come from?) I play a few hours a week, very casually. As do other staff members. I'm pretty sure none of the staff are in some 8v8 set group. Heck, some of my characters don't even have templates. The question to consider is this: What makes DAOC DAOC? Part of the answer to that is the fact that there are elements of skill and tactics. If those elements are softened for casual players it will inevitably still skew towards the hardcore players min-maxing within the new framework. Then what? Adjust again? Ok...but where does the line stop, and when does whatever we deliver stop being a classic DAOC experience and instead turn into its own unique game itself.

There have been servers that have come and gone in the past that I enjoyed for what they were. Log on, fight in Goth harbor... go have fun. But none of those, in my view, were "DAOC". They may have used the places and look and feel, but they simply were there own thing. I think we have been pretty consistent in saying for years that we are looking to provide a classic DAOC experience. Part of DAOC (a major part) is the RVR system - which includes keeps, the value attached to them, the relics... those things all have components that make the game what it is. To enhance an experience in a way that changes how those things work could lead to something else entirely. If we had a level 50 BG where set groups could go? Would that be DAOC? You might say we're "Forcing" the 8 mans to go zerg it up...but is it not true to say that instead the groups of 8 are instead "forced" to play DAOC?

Severian wrote:What, as a player, should I be doing to change other player's (usually) benign behavior?

Talk to them and understand why they missed port. Some people don't respect others time. It is no different than in life when people are constantly late to meetings or go over time. It is disrespectful and very bad etiquette. Some people do not realize this. What is the proper solution? You could do a run while you wait, or, look for an alternative, or deal with it by waiting. Those are really the three choices immediately available as I see it.

All good and true, but the needless timesinks are nothing a lot ever liked about daoc. Ofc they are part of the game, the way to 50 should be a grind etc, but it is not 2001 anymore. The player here grew old, sick and tired (a disease called wife/husband and kids). Not enough new player, for those this is a new experience.

I completely agree with you, we should not mess much with the core game mechanics. Just get rid of the meanest time sinks, they have no purpose and just s uck the fun out of the game 99% here know better than the real world, and see no need to do it the 100th time the hard way.