ok then lets start paper daoc

friar - no det 5

paper daoc ended

Friar resists don't matter if you're being debuffed so the one unique thing a friar can bring is made completely null and void.

Friar has no det and cant peel if he's mezzed or rooted.

At this point, who cares if the friar can heal Rez and cure disease?

e r i c= wrote:Friar resists don't matter if you're being debuffed so the one unique thing a friar can bring is made completely null and void.

Friar has no det and cant peel if he's mezzed or rooted.

At this point, who cares if the friar can heal Rez and cure disease?

You also forgot that Nearsight renders healing worthless, and with no spreadheal or instant heal you're basically a non-determination melee at that point.

Deehorsey wrote:They are (imo) better wardens.

I had to reply to this statement and flat out say you are wrong.

Wardens don't get Shield spec this patch which kind of screws over their uber-tankiness spec, they don't get spec dex/quick like a Friar does (a potion or charge item can replace that easily if solo)... AND they don't get cure poison + cure disease (which seems ludicrous to me as they should have it)... but in place of those negatives they have a few huge positives.

Firstly they have a run speed spell and with Long Wind 1 and a rank or so of the Endurance Dampening ability in Regrow they can perma-sprint same as a Friar can with similar setup only WITH speed behind it. Not to mention on top of giving a group that backup run speed when grouped. To me this is huge if you're going to even attempt to solo as you won't be on the main roads as much as a Friar with just regular perma-sprint. (It sucks HARD not having speed, trust me).

Secondly they have Damage Add + PBT, which right away makes them 10x more groupable then Friars. As long as the group has minimal 1/2 druids and a Bard, they could go mostly melee or mostly caster for the rest of the group and in theory that 8th slot isn't --wasted-- with a Warden in it strictly for the PBT, (not to mention the backup base-heals/healing and twisting of Damage Add).

Thirdly they have Thornweed Field which in the right circumstances (a push into a lord room perhaps) could be a game changer as it's an pulsing AoE interrupt for 30 seconds.

TL;DR: Defense wise I'd say a Friar is superior this patch level (basically never hit one that's rr5+ and invested into Dodger and Mastery of Parrying)... but a Warden brings a ton more to the table for a group then a Friar. Nearsight will gimp their heals the same as a Friar, but with PBT and Scale armor (and a few ranks in mastery of blocking to make up somewhat for lack of shield spec) they can be pretty tanky I'd wager.

Soon you will all bow to the Supertacos.


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I have to make enemies on both sides here.

I disagree with the original poster that albs should run Friars in general, because he does not fit the current metagame that I observe on alb pugs right now (the role of the Theurgist). But on the other hand I disagree with those who think he is just inferior and offers no true advantages to your group.

I played a lot with a certain legendary Friar, whom everybody loved, on the other server (yes I know it had different mechanics, but for the point i have it is indifferent), so I know exactly which positions you have to take away from your group to get him in - or maybe its better to say, which roles he can fulfill to what degree and what happens if you replace different positions with the Friar. You will still need to play different when you use a Friar in a group, but it hurts less if you give him the role of the peeltank. Why? Lets look at his skills

Some people called Friar a jack of all trades, which maybe can be a fitting description of what he can/should do in a group. Lets look at the competitiveness of his trades specifically: His rupting (and also dmg) potential is certainly weaker to that of a Minstrel (who has a pet), of a Merc (who has det) or of a Theurgist (who has a lot of pets). He does not have instant heals or access to BOF compared to a cleric. He neither has access to a 27s anytime snare combo, nor to an anytime snare with short duration, but "just" a side snare (if you know me, you should have experienced what you can do with side snares) and ofc no slam.

So if you look at all the things on their own, he seems to be lacking everywhere. BUT don't forget that you can use each of these skills (single heals, peels, heavy tankiness with platearmor-like absorb + evade, elemental resists) in almost every fight as needed according to the situation. An armsman would not be able to heal in a situation, when a heal was needed. A third cleric would not be able to peel, when a peel was needed. HE CAN SELFPEEL (evade snare or side snare if he is skilled). His overall defensive abilities outweigh his offensive ones, and when running a friar, it often felt that my group gained so much survivability, that my group was not able to die. If the Friar gets interrupted, he can still peel. If the friar gets rooted, he is still able to heal - certainly more backup utility than any rooted paladin (@Chagg: people don't use paladins). And if you are in a situation where you currently don't need pure survivability but rupt, the friar can help out rupting like many wardens do.

The last point i want to make is something noone has said so far here:
Having a third healer really messes up the enemies' rupting scheme. Especially mids usually only have limited interrupt possibilities, compared to alb with potentially infinite pets. A third healing class in alb means they have to splitup their tanks even more, and without any assistrain, melee hits should be healable as long as the powerpool suffices (ofc you want to avoid it nonetheless with peels).

I don't run with a friar right now and I don't plan it right now. I am not a big fan of it currently, but also not an enemy of it (if it is played correctly).

Friar cannot heal while rooted on this server 90% of the time because of uncurable nearsight.

Please run moar friars

Deehorsey wrote:
"Stronger." What gives friar value is more survivability across the board. Resists? Check. More buffs (and Spec AF for group)? Check. Supplemental healing and cures? Check

Unfortunately, Friar spec AF it's self only. (Afaik I have not tried casting it on others on this server)

Things I think would help.

Friar and Pally should have been 1 class.

Stoisim should be removed.

Cc duration reduced to include the effect on all classes ( maybe all classes with styles)

Det available to all classes with styles.

But since this will never happen..

Adding the ability to spec AF friendly's ? Sure, wouldn't hurt, cleric does not have enough conc to cast it anyway.



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If friar can base then the cleric can spec af group so almost like the friar does add spec af to the group

Soon all you paper DAOC try hards will feel the wrath of the Supertacos.

Sector7G wrote:
Friar and Pally should have been 1 class.

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That would make the class groupable then and similar in function to a bard.

Can't have that on albs classes what are you thinking.

would be a bit more like modern day warden.. i would grp that in a heartbeat!

I've run with Friars a few times after reading this post and I still don't exactly see what they bring to the table. Not trying to ram elitism down anyone's throats, it's just that at this point in DAoC some things work, others not so much and the skill floor has risen so you now need to be more competitive off the bat if other groups are as well. Really wish some classes were more viable... my first level 50 was a Thane... and damn that was depressing.

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Budikah wrote:I've run with Friars a few times after reading this post and I still don't exactly see what they bring to the table. Not trying to ram elitism down anyone's throats, it's just that at this point in DAoC some things work, others not so much and the skill floor has risen so you now need to be more competitive off the bat if other groups are as well. Really wish some classes were more viable... my first level 50 was a Thane... and damn that was depressing.

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My first character here is a paly...and is A LOT used....in pve
Friar is the same problematic. nothing realy usefull, and have all the issue regarding cc and groupability.

May be GM should seriously look at this kinda problem, before having server full of healer/mezzer, det class and nothing more