With 2 clerics of course.

48 enhance, 33rejuv, rest in staff.

Ability for the whole group to be full buffed.
Cold/heat resists for hib and mid casters.
Back up Heals, extra disease cure so clerics can heal, extra rez so clerics save power.
Side snare with 18 staff for peels on support and to clear pets.

In my opinion this would be an excellent choice for alb 8mans. Friar can hang in the back and heal/peel. My 2cents, curious on everyones opinion?

My opinion: They're a great class on paper but when it comes down to it in 8v8 they're just a mediocre peeler with heals. Like most hybrids, in 8v8 situations it's usually better to have classes devoted to certain roles as opposed to having several jack of all trades. Minstrel/merc/paly/arms can all peel better so that leaves friar feeling pretty unwanted. -Friar heals are nice to have but if you think about it that just means they're sacrificing their DPS and peeling. They get no insta heals either and going high in rejuv feels unrewarding when compared to a main healer like cleric. They also get no determination so they're useless for peeling when they get rooted or stunned, only having 1 interrupt doesn't help.

If you're going friar I think 18 staff is way too low. Most people won't want you in the group for healing anyways, healing is something you should do as a backup when you're rooted or when you can't do anything else (kind of like cabalist heals). Take it from me, as a cabalist I used to heal a lot and spend most of my time debuffing and rooting and in the end my group suffered because I didn't provide the DPS needed. What it really comes down to is how big your group is and what roles are needed. More DPS is more important as a friar in most cases (IMO) and more staff also helps a lot more for solo/small man which is where friars are best.

::They're not a bad class and they're great in smallmans/solo but I don't see people running them in 8v8 on purpose (only PuGs).

Let's do some paper DAoC, because its in the forum..

I also wanna say in the beginning: i think, as my previous poster, that Friar is a rly viable solo/smallmen class, but he dont rly fit in an 8man setup. The problem is simple, and common known: Alb just got the most needed and basic skills spread over to many diffrent classes.

Basicclasses you need in every 8man setup (with OldRAs):
1. Mind-Sorc
2. Cleric
3. Cleric
4. Minstrel

Now you might say: But you can drop on Cleric for an Rejuv-Friar, but thats also a thing the threadstarter also said is not a possiblity.
You'll lose: Single-Instant,Grp-Instant,BOF, second Specbuffer.
You'll win (compared to Cleric): Heat,Cold,Matter Resists , another Peeler.

Okay if you/we stay with 2 Cleric, the 4 Grp Slots mentioned above are set.
Now you got 4 open spots to play around.

Szenario 1: Castergrp
If we compare it with (in my opinion) the strongest Albsetup currently:
5. Armsman
6. Matter-Cabba
7. Spirit-Cabba
8. Body-Sorc

The question is which class you wanna drop?

- One of the Cabbas and run with 1 Trispec Cabby instead? - you'll lose alot(20% debuff) of dps, cabba almost cant deal dmg as well cause of to much to do elsewhere (NS, Root, new Targetpicking+Debuff).
- The Body Sorc? - you'll lose your Main-DPS, third demezzer, aoe-rooter, good range-rupter.
- Last Chance, and imo the only viable chance: the Armsman, but do you rly wanna lose a det-slamer+good dmg in followup assist to exchange it for a third healer/resists?

My Opinion: Friar dont rly fit in this castersetup, he is playable and even usefull no doubt, but there are better classes on every slot if you wanna run this castersetup.

Szenario 2: Meleegrp
in Alb and yes i'm rly saying it. Maybe the Friar would fit more in a melee-focused grp?
5. Merc
6. Merc
7. Merc/Arms/Theu
8. Pala

(correct me if i'm wrong with my meleebased setup, cause i didnt play alb since relaunch and just guessing on uth1 experience how an alb-melee grp could look like.)
In a Meleebased Setup you need melee dps, so slot 5 and 6 are set for dps purpose.
So we rly just got slot 7 and 8 to work with.
- Paladin, in a meleebased grp you simply need the endu not just for sprint, but also for dps, so even the paladin would be viable here. You wanna lose Endu in a meleebased setup? IMO a bad idea, and i know there are endureg pots. But from my experience of uth1 that simply is not enough for a melee to deal constant dmg. So you simply need the paladin here.
- Merc/Arms/Theu , this is maybe the most viable slot in this setup. I'd prefer to stick to the Armsman. With OldRAs the Paladin is simply to fragile if it comes down to CC. And you'll need a 90% free peeler, like the Arms. BUT: This would be the slot a Friar would be viable in any chance. (at least in my opinion)

Szenario 3: Split-Grp
5. Merc
6. Arms
7. Trispec-Cabba
8. Bodysorc

In such a complex grp setup (i run it myself for weeks on uth1 4 years ago as preparation for old RAs, funny if i say that now. :p) you simply need every single one of those classes, or you'll lose dmg,slam,ns/debuff etc. No chances for a Friar here.


After writing all this down. It rly is a hardtime for paladin and friars in Albion 8man RvR. There is just 1 single Slot i'd say a Friar is okay, but still i'd prefer another class for myself. Are there btw any Meleebased Albgrps out there? ^^

I hear everything your saying but in a caster extend group a viable setup could be.

Mind Sorc
Cleric
Cleric
Mins
Friar
Wiz
Tri spec Cab
Body sorc

Body sorc and wiz as main dps (will blow stuff up easy) and mind sorc/cab another assist train when time permits. I think ability to full buff group/heal/rez/resists/semi peel/and cure disease so extending can be done correctly is a good enough reason to replace one spot in the above mentioned setups.

yr welcome to run something dumb like wizard and friar but theres a reason people dont. the resists just arent worth gimping the group because the resists are only nice if the nukers dont have a debuff.

neighborhoodwatch wrote:yr welcome to run something dumb like wizard and friar but theres a reason people dont. the resists just arent worth gimping the group because the resists are only nice if the nukers dont have a debuff.

this.

it doesn't matter if a chanter is red heat debuffing you if you have a friar in group, they're gonna hit you for cap.

and mids, well mids dont run casters at all other than occasionally a sup rm which doesn't do friar resist damage.

Friar competes with the def armsman slot in group. So you can have:

- anytime snare
- guard
- slam
- soldiers barricade
- det 5

or

- sidesnare
- elemental resists
- backup heals

I think most groups have thought it through and take the first. If you want elemental resists take a paladin as def tank and run heat/cold resist chant. Paladin at least gets you anytime snare combo, slam, guard and speed 6.


And to the wizz as main dps in grp it is laughable. Wizard bolts miss around 50%, they work as 100% fire damage on this patch level and nuke vs 40-50% resists, spec nuke has no self debuff implemented on this patch, you have no resist pierce from toa bonuses -> your cast damage is crap because all cast damage is crap here without debuff and you do not have any utility beside a single root that every alb caster has.

But but but... VP!

Fri Clr Clr Minst Minst Arms Merc Merc

Fri Clr Clr Minst Sorc Cab Arms Merc

Deehorsey wrote:Fri Clr Clr Minst Minst Arms Merc Merc

Fri Clr Clr Minst Sorc Cab Arms Merc

My opinion to those setups:

First setup is the only one where a friar could fit. But still theu, cab, sorc or even another merc/arms is stronger in most situations (it is the only setup that could be run without sorc cause of old sos but DA, haste and pet rupt or NS and disease or even more reliable melee damage are stronger than backup heals and resists).

What function does friar have in the second setup? Friar cannot reliably peel so arms has to peel and then you have near to no damage cause sorc and cab have to keep rupt up. Every theu (for rupt so sorc and cab can do cast damage) or arms, merc (for melee damage) is stronger in that setup.

Just give it up, friar will always be suboptimal at this patchlevel.

Some great points. Glad we got the conversation going as i was thinking of having a friar alt.

ZaiQQ wrote:Just give it up, friar will always be suboptimal at this patchlevel.

Pretty much.

Dromina wrote:

Deehorsey wrote:Fri Clr Clr Minst Minst Arms Merc Merc

Fri Clr Clr Minst Sorc Cab Arms Merc

My opinion to those setups:

First setup is the only one where a friar could fit. But still theu, cab, sorc or even another merc/arms is stronger in most situations (it is the only setup that could be run without sorc cause of old sos but DA, haste and pet rupt or NS and disease or even more reliable melee damage are stronger than backup heals and resists).

What function does friar have in the second setup? Friar cannot reliably peel so arms has to peel and then you have near to no damage cause sorc and cab have to keep rupt up. Every theu (for rupt so sorc and cab can do cast damage) or arms, merc (for melee damage) is stronger in that setup.

"Stronger." What gives friar value is more survivability across the board. Resists? Check. More buffs (and Spec AF for group)? Check. Supplemental healing and cures? Check. They are (imo) better wardens. You can run haste charges without a theurg. I suppose you could argue that you can also run Spec AF charges in lieu of a friar. But while losing out on DA is big, the friar's role here isn't to contribute more damage. They contribute to survival. People forget how sturdy alb tank groups can be.

I view theurg as a flex role rather than a vital role. Fitting Friar+Theurg into a group will really hurt damage.

In the second set up armsman is the peeler. Armsman should be the peeler in most alb set ups. That leaves the merc and friar to be front line, rather assisting or split assisting (situational). Sorc Cab is some control, but with a strong DPS option. I'd say most of your kills even come from them. Between pets, minst, and a frontline, this group comp doesnt lack control.

Here's what it boils down to. If you're pugging and you want a full group then yea, group anything. But at 1.65 the best Alb groups are caster groups. Now do i want an armsman, with det, 9s slam on det targets, 90% snare peel, 2h burst damage, and can take hits? Or do i want a squishy friar with leather, no greater heal, no damage output, no det, crappy side snare.

Or do you take away dps and run 1 less caster and an arms/friar? Obviously no.

There's your reason why no one runs friar.