I just edited the title of my thread to better reflect the ongoing discussion.

Today I was actually accused of being ANON, not joining the BG (oh god that again) and not grouping to help people XP. Oh and I was actually blamed for personally ruining everyone elses XP, which I thought was kinda funny.
The sad thing is Im getting singled out for actually discussing with people and educating them about how this game works. Very often people don't know better and sell off half-truths or misunderstandings as actual facts, which in turn get repeated by other players. That's no way to move forward, so I keep writing and caring.

1. ANON
I stay ANON, because I can not be online for 10 minutes without a random stranger asking me to powerlevel him. It doesn't even matter if I am in Siabra City or anywhere else, people just keep asking. I thought ANON would stop that, but it just slows it a bit, I still get 20-30 requests on any given day.
---> If it wasn't clear from previous statements, I will not powerlevel strangers and I will no sacrifice my entire day helping friends either. I want to play to and get my personal gaming goals done, like getting a nice house in the housing zone and finishing my tailor GM. Thats how I enjoy Uthgard. I don't need a second job as virtual XP bot.
2. BG
I said it time and again, BG is not a fair system for gold distribution and I will not support it. Some people think it has to do with XP and loot too, but it doesn't.
3. XP
XP naturally slows when camp or group bonus fall away. It has very little to do with Lvl 50 players. You will notice the impact however when you are in a low dmg group and mobs simply survived longer before major dmg dealers arrived on the scene. When there are 60 or even 100 players there it actually doesn't matter anymore who is there.
4. Lvl 50s staying in SC
Plain and simple, get used to it. At any time I was there other 50s looting or powerlevelling friends stayed there too. They just shut the fu*k up and don't poke the bear as much as I do.
5. Blaming individuals
Fact is we are all equal in this game. Everything I do, you can do too. Whatever I do has no impact on what you can do. DAoC has endless possibilities and if your personal plans don't fit well with another persons plans, you can always choose to change your strategy, find a better way or adapt. The worst thing you can do in life and in gaming is acting like a victim and blame someone else for things not going your way. I understand however the convenience and effortlessness of that mindset.

Tree, it's sad you have to type this out.

No need to keep the drama alive, people attending know who is trying to do it right and who is there to take advantage, then there is the people who just dont understand anything and ****** about everything. When i have to quit the bg i always ask for someone to step up, noone ever does so i just quit and leadership goes towards some random. When i came back today the leader was in fact joking and asking a lvl 43 animist to drop his grp and join his. You cannot lead anything with that mindset, fullstop. I will step down from SC zergs now on since other ppl need to step up, people who others may follow and if that doesnt happen SC zergs will just stop and we all will be on priv zergs, let it be its what HIB has voted for.

And I thought alb was having /popcorn problems

The thing is, we are all taking advantage of SC. People need to realize that and be happy with what we got.

Farmbooty, you take that way too serious. SC at this point with up to 100 people there is no rocket science. Hope you can use your energy to organize some real raids in the future, I bet people will apprecite that more.

Ah this must have been the other BG that was going on at the time. I had no idea your group was so much larger! We probably had about 25 on average.

Thanks to whoever steps up and arranges these!

-Mezmerelda

Tree wrote:I just edited the title of my thread to better reflect the ongoing discussion.

Today I was actually accused of being ANON, not joining the BG (oh god that again) and not grouping to help people XP. Oh and I was actually blamed for personally ruining everyone elses XP, which I thought was kinda funny.
The sad thing is Im getting singled out for actually discussing with people and educating them about how this game works. Very often people don't know better and sell off half-truths or misunderstandings as actual facts, which in turn get repeated by other players. That's no way to move forward, so I keep writing and caring.

1. ANON
I stay ANON, because I can not be online for 10 minutes without a random stranger asking me to powerlevel him. It doesn't even matter if I am in Siabra City or anywhere else, people just keep asking. I thought ANON would stop that, but it just slows it a bit, I still get 20-30 requests on any given day.
---> If it wasn't clear from previous statements, I will not powerlevel strangers and I will no sacrifice my entire day helping friends either. I want to play to and get my personal gaming goals done, like getting a nice house in the housing zone and finishing my tailor GM. Thats how I enjoy Uthgard. I don't need a second job as virtual XP bot.
2. BG
I said it time and again, BG is not a fair system for gold distribution and I will not support it. Some people think it has to do with XP and loot too, but it doesn't.
3. XP
XP naturally slows when camp or group bonus fall away. It has very little to do with Lvl 50 players. You will notice the impact however when you are in a low dmg group and mobs simply survived longer before major dmg dealers arrived on the scene. When there are 60 or even 100 players there it actually doesn't matter anymore who is there.
4. Lvl 50s staying in SC
Plain and simple, get used to it. At any time I was there other 50s looting or powerlevelling friends stayed there too. They just shut the fu*k up and don't poke the bear as much as I do.
5. Blaming individuals
Fact is we are all equal in this game. Everything I do, you can do too. Whatever I do has no impact on what you can do. DAoC has endless possibilities and if your personal plans don't fit well with another persons plans, you can always choose to change your strategy, find a better way or adapt. The worst thing you can do in life and in gaming is acting like a victim and blame someone else for things not going your way. I understand however the convenience and effortlessness of that mindset.

Here is my point of view:

1. ANON: As long as you aren't the leader of the BG - who the F. cares? Not harming anyone here.

3. XP: Right XP distribution isn't linked to the BG in any way. - not harming anyone there.

4. LvL 50s staying in SC: It's irrelevant whether a person is 49 or 50 or 48, as long as they are social.

Now we come to the debatable points:

5. Blaming individuals: Most of the time the ones not getting enough are to blame themselves. But as said - most of the time - not all the time. Which brings me to number 2.

2. BG: Calling a system that at least tries to somehow distribute loot "unfair" and resorting to an even - less - fair system is illogical at best.

I was sitting in SC for 13 hours two days ago, some of them with rather bad groups, some of them with 2 40+ and a 50 animist. I went from 39.1 to 41.2 within that timespan and because of bad distribution got 24g and not a single drop.
I didn't complain, still helped everybody around me, rezzed people, threw around buffs even to people not in my group - and simply showed up the next day again. Tree was even recognizing me as a helping person and gave me some random loot to acknowledge that, which I declined first but he insisted.

So why are people complaining? Why am I typing this, when I don't even care about the "24g and no drop within 13 hours of gameplay"? I tell you why:

Solo players leaving the BG while still benefiting of the security of the zerg destroy what Siabra City was first intended to be: a realm experience.
Everyone now forms their own BGs, leeches solo, want's every single drop for themselves and doesn't even care about their fellow supporters - yesteday a mentalist was asked for pom and gave it out, he then asked for group and was denied with the reason the groups XP would be dropping when he joined. That's a prime example of selfishness - wanting stuff from others while not giving anything in return.

I was there the first day this event started and - you yourself (Tree) - stated that we have to improve the grouping so - everyone - is on equal footing. (you mentioned 2 45+ dps taking in lower players, switching sides as soon as they are 40+)
Just some days later - you yourself - seemingly lost all your realm pride and leeched every single item you got from the zerg. And even when giving me "~10g worth of items" looks generous of you I feel this was simply the "trash" you had to free to fill your inventory with more of the good stuff.

Same thing with Farmbooty: First zerg of his i attended he mentioned several times "people should invite lower level ones as he was low level just 2 days ago aswell and is now the zerg leader." Wanting to demonstrate how one hand could wash the other. And again he did his own thing as soon as he was high enough to do so. And only after being flamed by some angry users resorted back to forming a BG to increase the opportunities of some minorities.


So two people started something good and it turned into something bad.
- They aren't necessarily responsible for it turning bad -
but they are responsible for their reaction to this situation, which was - at least at times - selfish and greedy.


To come to an end, my honest opinion: I understand all sides of this debate, I know the Xp is bad if one is in a bad group or too many low levels attend. I know it's bad to get no loot while being in the BG. I know it's bad to be looked at as a powerleveler for lazy people and I know it's bad to think one could get a quick boost while being denied even though one helped the zerg for hours upon hours.
Everyone deals with things like this differently, some try to avoid the bad things by not sharing loot, preventing posts by being anon and not grouping with some people (or even at all) to increase XP. And some resort to name calling, blaming and other angry behaviour. Well and some simply don't care enough to do either.

What I simply don't like about this is that it started as a - realm experience - and ended in a - race of selfishness and accusations.

Is taking everything for granted bad? Yes it is.
Is not sharing loot with others bad? Yes it is.
Is getting angry and start name calling bad? Yes it is.

But do you know what isn't bad - but really sad instead? That all these things even exist. All this anti-social behaviour. Being it towards certain classes, certain levels, certain groups, certain guilds or any other form.

We should all be mature enough to not let this greedy behaviour of the young people we once were dictate how we act today. This should be a mature and fun place to spend time on and find new or old people.

But I guess people just like to fall into regression when in contact with oldschool material.

Very good post Victos, although I was not there and therefore cannot judge the situation, I do know it takes two to start a fight both sides in this argument did some things wrong an some things right, just admit it and shake Hands...

Only one part I have to comment: while tree has a point that the "lowies" do not really deserve shared bg-gold since they get tremendous exp already, please see it from the view of these people 40-45ish who actually do PL the lower players and group with them... they will most likely never do the dmg needed to get a lootbag nor get rather poor xp... for them the money distribution within a bg is only fair to get at least something out of it, that should be reason enough to share at least the coins. since highlvl damage groups do get the loot, they should be able to pass on the coins to keep the PL idea of SC zergs alive... my completely unbiased opinion since I took part only once to sees the whole thing and most likely wont do so again because I enjoy normal levelling more

I went there a few minutes ago and simply asked if any group had a spot. Someone told me it was a private "BG zerg" and that I would be reported through /appeal if I didn't leave. Friendly people down there. That was my first time to Siabra City since 2004 and I was there less than 5 minutes.

Uzkrak wrote:Very good post Victos, although I was not there and therefore cannot judge the situation, I do know it takes two to start a fight both sides in this argument did some things wrong an some things right, just admit it and shake Hands...

Only one part I have to comment: while tree has a point that the "lowies" do not really deserve shared bg-gold since they get tremendous exp already, please see it from the view of these people 40-45ish who actually do PL the lower players and group with them... they will most likely never do the dmg needed to get a lootbag nor get rather poor xp... for them the money distribution within a bg is only fair to get at least something out of it, that should be reason enough to share at least the coins. since highlvl damage groups do get the loot, they should be able to pass on the coins to keep the PL idea of SC zergs alive... my completely unbiased opinion since I took part only once to sees the whole thing and most likely wont do so again because I enjoy normal levelling more

Plus add the constant random invites to 38-42 players, to join to a Bog of Cullen exp group. Never telling about zero possibility for item drops and gold being a dream.

I cant imagine anyone staying in the zerg if they have zero friends there, needing of PL.

Like i understand a guild camping there, but solo players who just dont know anyone, they should just focus in normal groups.

That MEGA zerg has massive amount of alts joining the PL feeding. But if you go there and ask for a group, and no one knows you (you are not in a guild or no one knows you = no invite).

In my eyes, the zerg is there only to feed those 50s high tier items as fast as possible.

Ganaka wrote:I went there a few minutes ago and simply asked if any group had a spot. Someone told me it was a private "BG zerg" and that I would be reported through /appeal if I didn't leave. Friendly people down there. That was my first time to Siabra City since 2004 and I was there less than 5 minutes.

There is no private in Siabra City and for what rule violation could they report you?

And don´t forget These nice Highlvl Ments, they sell Red crack for 25g
I hope Guys like these get banned kicked or get them a ticket to reroll at mid

Gulfoss wrote:And don´t forget These nice Highlvl Ments, they sell Red crack for 25g
I hope Guys like these get banned kicked or get them a ticket to reroll at mid

But seriously why? A Ment that gives out pom to everyone has no mana himself to do anything in SC.
So you are practically demanding from the mentalist in question to log in in his free time and work as everyones free POM Bot. Well if he likes to do that, because he believes in charity, then good for him, you will be great friends. If he doesnt, then its not your call to pressure, accuse or demonize him. As long as people are willing to pay those 25g, its a win-win for everyone.
And I do hope the staff will act against players that try to spam or abuse the ticket system or at the very least ignore them.

And please remember, everyone started at Lvl 1 with zero copper three weeks ago. If some people have more now, thats because they either put their time in or have a better strategy. I dont believe in charity either, neither in DAoC, nor in real life. I believe in empowering people and creating opportunities. And I do that at my own volition, without anyones say-so.

Gulfoss wrote:And don´t forget These nice Highlvl Ments, they sell Red crack for 25g
I hope Guys like these get banned kicked or get them a ticket to reroll at mid

Thats your only problem with that zerg-xp?:p
This was an ironic answer to all the SOLO lvl 45-50 animists that didnt want to share their loot/gold/xp with other people but asked our druids to rezz them every 3-4 minutes and/or pom, since they had no interest in grouping mentas/anybody at all.

Not sure what went wrong with some people but in 2003 the zerg-xpevents i joined people tried to get balanced groups as much as possible so everyone could enjoy it, not such greed:p

Ganaka wrote:I went there a few minutes ago and simply asked if any group had a spot. Someone told me it was a private "BG zerg" and that I would be reported through /appeal if I didn't leave. Friendly people down there. That was my first time to Siabra City since 2004 and I was there less than 5 minutes.

Hey at least you had someone answer you lol.