Hey guys,

tonight for me was kinda crazy. I was at Siabra City for 11 hours straight and lots of things happened.
My original plan for today was reaching lvl 50, though that didn't work out because of the server restarts and other reasons.

This topic is actually about several things, that could stand unrelated and deserve seperate discussions.

First off I didn't start todays Siabra City event, someone else took the initiative, which is absolutely great! I would love to give kudos to whoever it was, but I really can not remember at that point.
Raiding or zerging Siabra City is pretty easy and you only need a few groups to get started. Leading the event is quite easy too; create a chatgroup, gather people, bring them to spot and slowly move forward to the spot that is appropriate to the amount of people (mainly dmg) you brought. As a raidleader you don't need to do much, but sometimes things get out of hand and you need to act. Most of the evening that wasn't necessary, but later on it actually became an issue.

Approximately the first 4 hours I spent with some people I regularly levelled with earlier, we had 3 high dmg dealer in grp and rest lowies and support. XP was okayish and we had almost no loot. No problem. We also played in battlegroup at that time, which you should not do in my view. Reason is simply gold/silver gets shared equally and when 70% of the raid are there to leech XP I just dont believe that this is very fair. Whatever group does the most dmg on a mob deserves it, but not the random Lvl 5 character, who just happens to be in the same battlegroup.
But some just feel entitled to that coin and XP. The BG Leader at that time complained for maybe an hour that his low lvl melee group didn't get enough XP and therefore high level casters should switch group. No no no and no! Just because you can powerlevel in Siabra City doesn't mean people are obligated to do that for just anyone. Its a great environment for friends and guilds to help each other, but it's not a place where strangers fulfill your god given right for cap XP. The illusion of entitlement some people have at this spot is absolutely hilarious. I will repeat it time and time again, make friends, search for a guild, maybe then someone will powerlevel you. If not, do it like everyone 45+ right now and level the normal/hard way, it won't kill you.
That being said; what you absolutely need to get good XP in Siabra City is high level damage, preferably PBAoE. On live almost every leecher had a Lvl 50 Ench or Eld powerlevelling him. If you build your group conceptually different the others aren't to blame for your slow XP, you just did it wrong.
Well the BG leader eventually realized that and to get at least something out of the event changed the raid loot to masterlooter, so everything went to him. At least for 1 minute before the entire raid dropped out of battlegroup.

The next couple of hours I spent in a small Dmg group, frankly because we got good results and wanted to finish 50 the same day. That was the first time after over 10 hours there I actually got good XP myself and consistent loot. Before that I helped PL several people and loot went to other groups with more dmg. In my opinion thats fine and tomorrow some other grp will likely have the pleasure.

The next hours went fine and apart from a lack of shrooming discipline (really just stack them ALL on one groundtarget, this way noone is at an advantage or disadvantage) all was good. At around 11pm GMT the first server reboot was announced and after that things got really crazy.

When I logged back in and came back to spot some small random guild had taken over the event and wanted everyone to join their battlegroup after we ran 4 hours without one. First I kindly refused but that wasn't accepted and I got spammed with BG invites for minutes and multiple SENDs from other members of the guild urging me to join their BG. Since I still refused those people got more aggressive, send me nasty messages with name calling and insults, tried to slander me in public chat, where others can listen and even tried to get me killed by aimlessly and uselessly moving the spot around. When I coincidentally got a oneshot from the queen they even tried to convince people not to rezz me. Well I did get a rezz, but the attempt alone is an absolute low. This whole thing went on for over an hour and I just wish I had the logs to show for it because they were clearly violating server rules espacially with the language they used.
I accept people can have different opinions about how to run things, but that has nothing to do with what happened here.
They were verbally insulting, trying to exclude me and others, harm us and slander us in front of other players. Such a behaviour is absolutely unacceptable and I thank those who spoke out against it.

Concerning raid leadership; if you want to be the leader and decide how things should go, you actually have to do more than act out, you have to lead. Since those guys started the new battlegroup the whole raid was moved around away from the best farming spots (maybe they didn't know any better), people died more often and after the third or so server reboot there was one major wipe (which I did not see first hand) and a second total wipe that ended the event and which was entirely caused by lack of leadership. The whole raid spread out more and more by itself, people were dying left and right, most dmg dealer were dead at some point, no rezz, people were still pulling and the majority of the raid was standing in spawn. Total chaos, totally unnecessary! And nobody said or did anything before I finally got a rezz and yelled at people to freakin get moving out of spawn.

Well... Tree is great, Tree is awesome, Tree will save the day. No that's not the point.
Please ask yourself, do you want capable leaders on your raids or do you want to follow some vocal bigmouth that actually has no idea what he is doing? And if people begin insulting others, speak out against it. That stuff does concern you. Make sure the people you want to play with can enjoy Uthgard and also make sure that bullies have no place here.

My evening and L50 plan was kinda ruined by what happened and I do hope that this remains a one-time thing for us on Uthgard.

Thanks Tree, do it again please!

Me and my group, we have been there as well yesterday, and watching those people there was like watching drug addicts. Most of the people there were selfish and had their own luck in mind. Sadly, that is what I learned about a lot of players on Hib during the last couple of weeks. Everyone just wants to get 50, but they all will ask themself why there are no tanks available, because everyone was doing focus pulls only. People always refer to Mid and complain about them. Maybe Hibs should start with themself and ask what is going wrong in their own realm.

Don't get me wrong here. Not everyone is like this. I've been with a couple of people in a traditional group setup last couple of days, with actual tanks in it. Yeah, it actually works. I know. Most people won't know after all that focus pulling and bombing. You certainly will know, when you miss certain classes and speccs in RvR, because noone took care of them.

Anyway - back to Siabra City. It would all be so easy, if people would work together instead of trying to overreaching everyone, that is not in their group or guild.

My question to you Tree would be, if you did report those people and the guild? I mean if you just accept their behaviour nothing will change ever. Especially if they did insult you. Those people should get banned, at least for some time. It is okay if people have different views and aren't team players, nor have any realm pride. But the line should be, where it gets personal.

Also - I don't understand, why people accept this kind of behavior. Just start your own thing, and make them the outsiders. Why making yourself the outsider? Don't let yourself get ruled by some lousy guild and selfish people.

I joined the event during last night and when I got there the insults were already ongoing.

I think we can clearly say that the insults were all coming from the Cartel guild. Or lets just call em by name, Harley and Xahr..

Hope something can be done to get rid of toxic players

and even tried to get me killed by aimlessly and uselessly moving the spot around

So they were a battlegroup and were trying to move away from you and you kept following and attacking mobs they pulled? Or did I misinterpret that statement?

Because it sounds like they wanted it to be something different than you and they tried making it so, yet you continued attacking their pulls and using their meat shields.

LONG LIVE THE TREE!

Lool, Tree innocent !

Man you just get fully loot/money for 5h+ ? and you want people cry on your shoulder ?
You make a fully dps group animiste/pbae 50 (Aeon ect) and a stupid cg to get over dps all other group, and after you say that all people are low level...
You just not clear with anyone like this u can just ****** them up hard.
People get tired yes and creat a bg coz this is not a good mentality.
Just put a restriction to a certain level and that's it
Stop pretend be teresa mother... also It's not Tree's and friend against 1 guild or something its against 95% of the bg.
What about all the level 40+ who participate activelly and doesn't get anything ? dO we cry or we don't give a ****** ?

Please continue ****** them hard and get your bags full, after all thats their problems if they accept this.

CubehBeast wrote:I joined the event during last night and when I got there the insults were already ongoing.

I think we can clearly say that the insults were all coming from the Cartel guild. Or lets just call em by name, Harley and Xahr..

Hope something can be done to get rid of toxic players

Lol.

Please link a screen. Coz i just talked to tree and Funguy to say my point of view. Without insult even if i was a bit rude (btw i don't remember i was that rude. i'm usually not).

Now Tree if u do not see what's the problem when u log out and came back on a zerg THAT IS NOT YOURS ANYMORE (there is no copyright on the idea. U know that ?) and u don't "play the game". U take everything for u coz u are in position to do most of the dmg. U put ur schrooms farther than the bg so u hit first. Well. U do all this ****** and u know it and u still claiming u'r the victim ?

It seems u'r just an hypocrite dude.


Dat QQ on board for nothing.. wow !

Bisous.

I wish I had chatlog acivated to send to the Devs, in that case I had the people reported. Sadly I dont. But since some of the insults were in public chat, people who were there know what was going on.

I also didn't know you can have/take ownership of a siabra city zerg. Its an open PL spot and people can come and go the whole day, thats the beauty of it. You can however lead a PL event, but then you actually have to do more than cry for bg and insult people. You need to give orders so people dont wipe.

I am not sure if some people dont understand how DAoC works or if they just blatantly lie to discredit me. At no point did I personally get ALL the loot. For a time my group did get a lot of loot, because we apparantly did major damage on a lot of mobs. That wasnt the case earlier I stayed there nor at later dates. The loot has to go somewhere, but it will NEVER be spread equally. It will however be spread more among high dmg dealing grps as soon as more people reach 50.
Bg doesnt change who gets loot, it just results in equal distribution of money, so that 10 Lvl5 leechers, that dont contribute anything, get 10 times more gold than a Lvl 45 dmg dealer. In my opinion thats not fair, so I wont support it, no matter if I am there doing dmg or leeching with one of my twinks. Others may do what they think best.

I made this thread in part because I want people to be aware of toxic behaviour and discuss how we should properly interact with each other. Looking at the way some people responded here I doubt the success of my efforts.
On the upside I found several people the last few days I will enjoy playing with on Lvl 50 and a few I will give a wide berth.

As a closing comment, yesterday I was at siab city for about two hours to help a friend get to 50. There were way more high dmg dealers there, we almost got no loot and nobody was crying for Bg. Thats what I predicted and I am quite happy about it.

Tldr sorry. I read most but I'm at work but I get the general gist.

In my opinion, if you are joining a battle group or a Zerg then you must be willing to help. I understand the frustrations of low levels just joining in, but remember, if a high level doesn't invite them to group then they won't get anything anyway. As for being a part of the bg or Zerg, you have to be just that. A part of it. Meaning that your goal is the same as everybody else's. if you don't want low levels in your group then fine, but you can't then gimp the rest of the BG because you feel more entitled than them. They invited low levels to their groups at their own leisure.

By not being a part of the bg and helping all those involved you are essentially just leaching xp from an organised bg. That to me seems a little unfair to the person that organised the event in the first place and probably also touches on the terms of service somewhere to about leaching etc.

Have a little think before you rant.


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I understand zerg xp is great, and have also enjoyed it before.
But damn it's toxic (for the realm) for many reasons.

- Leeching making people annoyed
- High dps = all loot (or near all)
- People learning "zero" about group dynamics, assist etc etc... which in turn gives us lvl 50's who has no clue about how to use their class in raids or RvR, or even in normal groups.

I still remember the first time I got a fresh "Modernagrav" warrior in a group, we had to kick him when we realized he didn't know what Guard/Protect was.

But yes, great/easy xp so understand why people do it.

My experience from this "farming" , 2 days = 1 gem worth 60 silver

is that 99% of all loot goes to a premade group that deals most of the damage, rest of the players are there to soak damage and keep the MEGA farming alive. ( also i am not sure if there is autolootage options on )

Experience past lvl40 is sub optimal, if you can farm with normal decent group with Anis or Enchanter pet+AoE i suggest you do that, +++you get gold and loot, that you desperate need all the time.

My estimate is, that one group gobbles around 2+ plat per hour by doing this, if they sell the misc items in guild house vendors, even more. ( i have loot drops parsed in one window ). There is drops all around, and metal weapons and armor gives arcanite there, leather/cloth/wood drops are not bad either.

As far as i have found out, this type of "farming" has been used to boost one guilds crafters to 800-900 in Armor/Weapon and Spellcrafting.

just my 2c, if people are wondering about, stuff.

SC zergs are optimal to pl to 40. thats why i encourage lowbies in grp, if u get over 40-42 plz form proper 40+ grps and go fins or df or somewhere else, thats my take on it. If u wanna grind ur 50 at SC get ur private dps grp and get loots also, im all good with that, but please dont forget SC zergs are public and anyone can join, and if u get lowbies in grps someday ull be able to come with ur twink and join also.

On a side note about speaking on bad players etc, or bad lvl 50s cos they got plvled, you could just teach them, elititst mentality just makes me laugh, people always thinking theyre better than the rest in a 15 year old elf sim and end being really bad players.

farmbooty wrote:SC zergs are optimal to pl to 40. thats why i encourage lowbies in grp, if u get over 40-42 plz form proper 40+ grps and go fins or df or somewhere else, thats my take on it. If u wanna grind ur 50 at SC get ur private dps grp and get loots also, im all good with that, but please dont forget SC zergs are public and anyone can join, and if u get lowbies in grps someday ull be able to come with ur twink and join also.

On a side note about speaking on bad players etc, or bad lvl 50s cos they got plvled, you could just teach them, elititst mentality just makes me laugh, people always thinking theyre better than the rest in a 15 year old elf sim and end being really bad players.

Why would i level my friends there?, when i can level them faster, with all the loot and gold in other areas ? it makes no sence at all in any aspect.

As an Animist i get 10-15 PMs from that farm group to join them per day. (when i was level 40-41).

That farm group tries to find people around 38-42 to "farm" with them, but they forget to tell that 99.99% of all loot goes to the group that is managing the raid.

That is the dilemma in that MEGA raid. => in my opinion when inviting to lvl 40-42 groups in that zerg, the arrangers should directly say that loot/gold will be a dream, and only soso XP is available.

NOTE : XP in a group of 40-42 level players is 1/4th of the normal you get from yellow kills.

I am not against this, but people should be aware of all aspects of the Zerg.

anyone complaining on public zergs should just make theyre private 2x full 40+ grps and do SC on their own enjoying all the exp alone.

btw, ive been 2x days arranging this zerg, always having 2x under lvl 20 ppl in grp and never gettin loot. people is forming main dps grp and standing outside bg etc. blame those guys not the ones doing work here. also when the zerg reaches more than 100ppl and everyone stop following directions and missplacing turrets dont spect good exp.