Selenus wrote:

Borabora wrote:But still: You will rarely find a competitive group with a Paladin

2 of the most successful Alb groups in pre-toa, Apocalypse Dudes and Public Enemies, both ran paladins. So this statement is plain wrong.
And before we go to discuss times have changed and people know things now that they didn't do back then, I will stand by the statement that you need a paladin.

No paladin (and no friar obviously) means you'll get 3shot by any chanter. It's suicide. You're all focused talking just about the endurance factor, that you're forgetting they're also there for the resistances.

Having determination on your Arms is handy and all, but it does not substitute the utility a pala brings.

I'll stick to my core: 2 clerics, sorc, theurg, minstrel, pala, 2 mercs. Speed 6 inc on a melee group is essential. And you really want SoS against good mid groups.

Let's just agree to disagree

But the difference between being successful with a paladin back then compared to now is exactly the fact that people know more about gsme mechanics now than they did back then. so saying his statement is wrong regarding 2016 daoc isn't working either.

what you're saying about the resist chant sure does have some value but 1500 range does never cover the entire radius of a fight especially in a tanker. If you really want to run a paladin you sure wouldn't have him push with the mercs but rather stay back and peel while offtanksoverextended out of chant range.

If the pala pushes after them to keep resist up you are 1. losing your support peeler and 2. If he gets mezzed you end up with no chants again and a non det tank being mezzed 1min.

of course this is all just paper daoc but still the resist chant argument doesn't work that easy.

and from what I've seen cast damage on debuffs isn't as strong as it was on genesis so any decent group won't have their tanks fall like flies.

Tapatalk'd bish.

An interesting albion setup is to maximize the dps.

C C
Sorc
Sorc body
Cab
Merc
Merc
Merc



Win mezz on support with a super haxxor sorc

Kill their tanks through healing body sorc caba debuff +3 mercs same guy boom dead, next tank.

6v8 kill their support

Hard to counter such a massive dps dump grp I think.


/edit

3 pets
2x mezz
3x root classes
2x casted stunn
3x slam
3x merc power

body sorc + cab + 3 mercs nothing can heal that.

Given high rr that group would really tear ****** up, but again u have the regen 3 pot issue. Adding a pala to it really compromize the monstah dps you want to scare the ****** out of enemy groups

pweet wrote:i just checked, its true it doesnt overwrite it good to know next fight
so see my last post as obsolete

hmmm albs are doing the same as the mids on with the haste on svg? just waiting and hope noone will realize and Report the bug?

There is no bug imo.you ll stay with endu3 even if you are in pala endu range.if you use a pot within range it will go to nirvana

the way it should be: if you have a pot endu reg up and run into the range of a switching Paladin, the endu buff from him will replace your endu reg potion buff. and if it doesn't work like this, you have to make a Report of this bug (like the mid svg guy)

but maybe it is bugged in hib too, with endu reg and bard or mana reg and bard.

The way i remember it is that no pulsing buff or chant should overwrite a static buff. Even if the buff is the lowest level, it should still persist over the chant or pulse benefit. So if you are running red endu song/chant and you then use a level 30 blue endu regen pot, you should lose the benefit of the chant and only benefit from the potion.

This is just how I remember it, no proof sorry.

Unfortunately, I don't believe that was the case until way later (into classic servers at least), where if you had an endurance pot up, it wouldn't get overwritten by a higher delve endurance buff.

hazelhimself wrote:i personally would not build an alb grp without the "Cleric, Cleric, Minstrel, Sorc, Arms/Pala (Arms for the rich and famous, Pala for the poor and gimpy) - backbone. not taking a minstrel is a possibility but i dont think its worth it.

add the following:

Meleeheavy: Merc, Merc, x (Theu, Cab, Friar)
Hybriderino: Merc, Cab, x (Cab, Theu, Sorc)
Casterheavy: Cab, Cab, Theu
Gimmicky: Firewiz, Firewiz, x (Sorc, Cab, Theu) - note: you need to have at least 30% heat debuff for this to "work"..so either 2 sorc one being body or the one sorc having some bodyheavy spec and gimpy mezz.

I think the above is a good answer to the original post that basically covers the possibilities alb groups are looking at for 8v8. Except perhaps for the Friar in the meleeheavy team; I dont think using a slot on a Friar is very optimal.

Should you not want to go with a minstrel in group, I'd say that Cleric, Cleric, Sorc, Arms/Pala, Merc, Merc, Theurg, Caba is also a strong team. You could also switch a Merc for a body-sorc to keep the double demezzing-comp, but personally I like the double merc-comp.

Shouldnt a 44 Staff friar provide enough damage to be considered as a slot? Also i cant remember if 2 Clerics alone have enough conc to fully cover every member, or can they? And as mentioned the resis from Friar also are very neat to have - not to forget a possible backup disease cleanse and miniheal in case of extreme urgence.

I was actually planning to play Sorc and either Friar or Reaver, but i wonder why Reaver is nowhere mentioned here. Is it just because they can't go for Det anymore? Shouldnt a Sorc with its mezzdamp be somewhat enough to counteract the "1minute mezz" those nondet tanks suffer from?


So what i was thinking of
Cleri
Cleri
Friar
Sorc
Caba
Theu/Minst/Reaver
Merc
Merc

Generally only det tanks get invites because w/o det you're a pretty big liability against competent groups who can cc, so I wouldn't have much hope for your reaver. The friar is in a similar boat, there just are not enough slots available in an alb group to put in everything you want. If you include a friar its at the expense of another det tank, or 2nd caba, or mincer, or theurg. Classes that are all more useful in 8v8 than a friar.

Apart from det, the friar also suffers from low weapon skill, on a 2h weapon no less. Any competent guarder will keep you in check no problem. So you either stand around rooted/mezzed or drum your stick into a shield (most of the time). This won't be too big of an issue for random zerg rvr, but cannot easily be tolerated in competitive 8v8.

noise wrote:Shouldnt a 44 Staff friar provide enough damage to be considered as a slot? Also i cant remember if 2 Clerics alone have enough conc to fully cover every member, or can they? And as mentioned the resis from Friar also are very neat to have - not to forget a possible backup disease cleanse and miniheal in case of extreme urgence.

I was actually planning to play Sorc and either Friar or Reaver, but i wonder why Reaver is nowhere mentioned here. Is it just because they can't go for Det anymore? Shouldnt a Sorc with its mezzdamp be somewhat enough to counteract the "1minute mezz" those nondet tanks suffer from?


So what i was thinking of
Cleri
Cleri
Friar
Sorc
Caba
Theu/Minst/Reaver
Merc
Merc

You're removing the defensive tank (Arms/Pala) by including a Friar. Rly think that's worth it?

Just to break it down, here's the "standard" hybrid setup I was talking about (the one without Minstrel) and what you'd be missing out on by getting a Friar:

Sorc, Cleric, Cleric, Caba, Theurg, Pala/Arms, Merc, Merc.

The Backbone is the Sorc, Cleric, Cleric, Pala/Arms. The damage comes from the Sorc/Caba-combo and the mercs.
Let's say you wanna put a friar in this setup, Here's what you are looking at kicking:

Arms/Pala --> No defensive tank to guard the backline and rupt enemy tanks. There's no chance bringing a friar over this slot is worth it imo.

Caba --> no Nearsight, Less CC (root, snare and disease), No Body-debuff Sorc/Caba-combo, no extra pet for rupting.

Theurg --> You loose the petspam and hereby kiting potential and interrupting. Theurgs also have a root, pbt + Damage Add and Haste for tanks.

Merc --> You lose out on damage and kiting. A lot in comparison to the Friars'.

Imo Friars are simply taking a slot from something that is better. Their damage is simply not happening, they cant heal as well as a cleric, they have no determination and they can't shield your backline from damage. Only kite comes from a side-snare. If you rly want the resist-buffs, I suggest you bring the Pala over the Arms.

As for Reavers; I guess you can get a Reaver in the place of one of the Mercs if you want to. But my experience is that most ppl prefer the double Merc comp. Reaver's main role is to do damage and bottomline is that by the time the fight is over, a merc (with the extra mobility) will likely have dished out more + spend more time collectively interrupting enemies. Also, the sorc mez-damp is for mezz only. Snares, stuns and roots are picked up by determination too.

If you want a Friar or a Reaver to go with your Sorc for RvR-purposes, my suggestion is that you pick the Reaver.

Rin wrote:

noise wrote:
Just to break it down, here's the "standard" hybrid setup I was talking about (the one without Minstrel) and what you'd be missing out on by getting a Friar:

Sorc, Cleric, Cleric, Caba, Theurg, Pala/Arms, Merc, Merc.

Well put.

Could Spice things up loosing theug (using gellow self haste 10 min pot 17%) and go for a:

C c Sorc (body) caba saracen blockbot pala and 3x mercs

Easymode push grp with very high dps from body sorc + Cab and crazy high sustained dps from 3x mercs. 2x pets.

Blue aoe mezz sucks but it will keep support mezzed for a while but be useless on stoic det tanks ofc.

Vs mid tank grps u can pop bof and train the shaman every time. Red single mezz on bers/savage scrubs. Caba debuffing for body sorc plus mob4 saracen pala will scare those trolls with body nukes for 650 plus crits.

Simpel setup to play also once rr5, bof moc on cleric when in doubt

A setup with theu and cabs doesn't make a lot of sense.either you pick 1-2cabas or a theu.