oLd-Sneakers wrote:C C S CAB
necro pain spec 30s rupt dot, 250 af debuff
minstrel
2x mercs

Have to run endo pots though lw2 + regen 3 chugging, and iirc regen pots share timer with regular instant power/endo pots in 1.65, so u have to use the BP endo/power pots. Might be wrong here but feel 70/30 right on this


C C S theug Cab
merc
merc
pala 44 2h 34 chants 42 shield 50 comp weapon split spec endo 4, ppl need lw1

No minstrel


C C S theug cab
merc
pala 44 2h 34 chants 42 shield 50 comp weapon split spec endo 4, ppl need lw1
body sorc

no minstrel


C C S theug cab
merc
armsman
minstrel

Have to run endo pots though lw2 + regen 3 chugging


I have run the necro setup in OF times just before ToA, and it works well against mids. AF debuffed and slammed savages drop fast. Basically cap dmg on casters iirc, and almost cap on studded armor.


/edit

No buffbot to buff necro pet though, so guess that wont work unless 3x cleric grp xD

C C C sorc cab
Necro
merc
merc

If everyone in the group uses a charge you can full buff group+abo with 2 Clerics. I am not sure yet it works well here.

C C Sorc Theu Mincer X X X would be my core. Preferring Arms Merc Cab on the x-slots if you are dead set on not running a Pally.

Cleric (Enh/Rej)
Cleric (Rej/Enh)
Minstrel
Sorc (44 mind/ 31 body)
Theurg (48 earth/ice)
Pala (48 chant/42 shield/sword)
Merc
Merc

Is the most reliable setup you'll get. Not running a paladin will immediately kill your group, you need the damage add / endurance / resistance twist. Don't forget you don't have a friar for bases nor elemental resistances, so hib caster groups will fulminate your group - you really need that pala. Theurg for pbt and pets. Minstrel for speed/interrupts/sos.
You can potentially make both clerics Rej/Enh and take a hit on the buffs, but I find this is better - Depends on how good your players are.

Albion is the realm that will be affected the most by the no-buffbot policy. Hibs get bard (and warden in some setups) for bases and 2 druids for speccing (assuming you both run 33rejuv/rest reg setup, which is preferable). Mids have to get all their specs from the group's shaman, but also get an auger for bases. Albs however, will get specs from the enh/rej cleric and crappy/uncapped bases from the rej/enh cleric.

noone needs a pala.

pweet wrote:noone needs a pala.

You must be cruising for being 3shot by hib casters. And no proper endurance regen for your 2 mercs...

Never will I understand people's obsession with the sub-par arms. It just pales in comparison.

No alb group at this patch level will perform well without a pala, unless you're fighting utterly clueless groups.

1000 endu range is usefull for roaming with speed 6 only.
No decent group will run a paladin, deal with it.

Selenus wrote:No alb group at this patch level will perform well with a pala, unless you're fighting utterly clueless groups.

I took my time to correct that for you

Borabora wrote:1000 endu range is usefull for roaming with speed 6 only.
No decent group will run a paladin, deal with it.

You seem to be forgetting the fire resist and damage add within chant twist. It's going to be fun watching clerics and alb casters being 3shot by any low rr chanter.

I'm amused that some people think armsman is actually more viable than pala

But hey, go for it, please. Free rps.

Even a friar would be better than paladin vs a Hib castergrp

If you can make do with endurance pots, that is by far the most ideal solution for alb and not run a pally. An arms in that spot is infinitely better.

Remember that tireless is useless on this patch level, so yellow end pots are almost a must for alb tanks. Everyone else should be able to get by with blue end pots, but mercs and arms I see running out of end pretty quickly without red endurance regen. Even in caledonia, I have noticed that with yellow endurance you really have to watch your sprinting once someone gets snared or you are on top of them.

Your guild will have to come up with a plan to farm alchemy ingredients and keep a vault full of yellow pots between rvr days/off times, which will make your alchemist want to kill himself.

Ramocheese wrote:If you can make do with endurance pots, that is by far the most ideal solution for alb and not run a pally. An arms in that spot is infinitely better.

Remember that tireless is useless on this patch level, so yellow end pots are almost a must for alb tanks. Everyone else should be able to get by with blue end pots, but mercs and arms I see running out of end pretty quickly without red endurance regen. Even in caledonia, I have noticed that with yellow endurance you really have to watch your sprinting once someone gets snared or you are on top of them.

Your guild will have to come up with a plan to farm alchemy ingredients and keep a vault full of yellow pots between rvr days/off times, which will make your alchemist want to kill himself.

I give up on trying to save Albion from shooting itself in the foot. Good luck with 2x merc groups (the only viable dps option for this patch) running without red endurance - it'll be positively appalling.

Borabora wrote:1000 endu range is usefull for roaming with speed 6 only.
No decent group will run a paladin, deal with it.

I don't have to deal with anything. Please, bring me your free rps

Paladinrezz OP.

Selenus wrote:

Ramocheese wrote:If you can make do with endurance pots, that is by far the most ideal solution for alb and not run a pally. An arms in that spot is infinitely better.

Remember that tireless is useless on this patch level, so yellow end pots are almost a must for alb tanks. Everyone else should be able to get by with blue end pots, but mercs and arms I see running out of end pretty quickly without red endurance regen. Even in caledonia, I have noticed that with yellow endurance you really have to watch your sprinting once someone gets snared or you are on top of them.

Your guild will have to come up with a plan to farm alchemy ingredients and keep a vault full of yellow pots between rvr days/off times, which will make your alchemist want to kill himself.

I give up on trying to save Albion from shooting itself in the foot. Good luck with 2x merc groups (the only viable dps option for this patch) running without red endurance - it'll be positively appalling.

Borabora wrote:1000 endu range is usefull for roaming with speed 6 only.
No decent group will run a paladin, deal with it.

I don't have to deal with anything. Please, bring me your free rps

Looking forward

Selenus wrote:
I don't have to deal with anything. Please, bring me your free rps

Do you play alb? I have and I play mid trust me paladins are hot garbage. Besides the AF/resist chant they're a complete liability since ppl will be relying on the endu which just won't be there for half the fight. So your tanks are going to need to carry endu regen pots and have longwind 3 anyways, might as well run another det tank or caba in its place imo.

90% of good alb groups will run w/o paladin.

Paladin has 1000 range endo, which is short, but allows sprint + theug speed perma while roaming.

Paladin with 44 2h composite weapon 50, 33 chants, 42 shield rest parry with mopain 3, block 3, purge, FH, AP, ip is weak to CC yes, but is a good backline peeler and can split assist together with 2 mercs once upper-hand is gained.

- slam
- 2h side snare
- 2h back snare

2h pala dmg on casters is decent enough to drop them in 3-4 hits. 300-400 dmg (played this spec as a rr7 paladin long ago and it was OK, not awesome but was OK dmg)

When looking at an alb setup you have to consider what you MUST have in the group.

2x cleric is must have
1x sorc is must have
1x caba is must have (imo can be debated perhaps, but not having disease and NS is fail imo)
1x theug one of the best interrupt classes is a must have for a modern 8v8 enviroment a la 2016
1x merc
1x body sorc/merc needed to have enough dps to drop people fast enough

That is 7 spots taken already to get the basics.

Now you can choose

1) more melee dps
2) more caster dps
3) speed 6 and a minstrel which offers some interruption but do u need that with sorc, theug and cab being able to interrupt far more reliable and at greater ranges then a minstrel can?


A) 2-3 mercs well then you sacrify speed 6 or a paladin

B) 1 more theug/cab/body sorc will not scale linearly won't be 2x as effective so I would pass on this option

C) speed 6 is not needed to win mezzes with bolt range aoe mezz, neither is a minstrel a reliable interruptor that isnt easily killed or taken out (1500 range flute on 1 target, 700 range dds and stuns) twisting abla, speed, charm, flute song will severly lower your minstrels capability to be effective at any of the tasks he will have to perform. Minstrel imo is the least favorable option for this group setup imo.


Now to touch the endo pot 3-4 idea.

* 1x regen pot has 2 min duration.

* You can carry 40 pots in 8 slots in 5 bags (8x5 = 40).

* That is 80 minutes of endo regen, which is not a lot.

* 8x40 = 320 pots for 1 hour 20 mins of rvr

* If your group rvrs for 3 hours thats 640 pots used, and then you cannot have any space for endo/power restore pots, which will likely be needed for 99.99% of people, especially if your tanks run endo regen 3 (blue pots)

* Crafting 1x regen 3 pot takes 10 seconds and costs ~3.6 gold

* 640 pots x 3.6 gold is ~2,5 plats per 3 hour rvr and takes 10s*640= 1,8 hours = 1 hour and 47 minutes to make, not including the time it takes to restock and transfere all the pots to another char/vault/chest.

Basically relying on pots is not gonna be realistic for 95% of the people playing this game.

To make one quick comparison:

Modern draughts with 9/9 endo regen with 5 min dur.

One stack of these pots gives 9*5 = 45mins of endo regen
Two stacks gives 90 min of endo regen

Everyone who played this game with any competence knows 2x stacks of endo regen 3 is not a lot, and you run out quickly, and you will also need to use 90 value endo regen restore pots after slams and extended sprinting while trying to catch runners.

The notion that you can run without a paladin is unrealistic and is completly anchored with modern 9/9 draughts regens in mind thinking "unstackable pots are not so bad it only means more crafting". NO, wrong.


So to return to the actual group composition.

C C
S
Cab
theug
2x mercs (1 is gonna get dominated by enemy backline too easily)
PALADIN

An alternative is to run body sorc instead of 2nd merc, and be 100% kite group which will work well and is a proven setup both in OF times and NF ToA times.

Minstrel can only be in the group without sacrifying dps if you run a full caster setup without merc and only a single paladin s/s as a guard bot.


C C
Sorc Mind
Sorc Body
Cab
theug
Minstrel
Paladin


This setup works but i personally prefer 2x mercs since you can still deal dps and survive with BOF if you blatantly loose the NS on inc.


Yup slow day at work

LOL. Why would you try to keep endu potions up all the time?
I really like those paper daoc trolls

All you need is 20 endu reg and 20 instant endu to play 15-20 fights. You will hardly have more "clean" fights in one evening.
Run a Paladin? Hell no.
qed