Assuming once we are some way into the server and the economy has settled down to a point where people can actually afford to use pots instead of a paladin in RVR groups, what is seen as the amount of LW&Tireless that will be needed for RVR?

I'm still not entirely sure what the implementation of end pots will be at this lvl, but my understanding is that end pots will be one use per pot and 10 min duration? Is it then foreseen that people in RVR will be perma end potted , or that people will only use them on INC, in which case i assume you cant sprint at all out of combat.

Again from my reading i hear that the end pot stacks with tireless at this patch level, so what can you foresee tanks inparticular as requiring in terms of LW & Tireless, assuming that there will be no paladin in the group for end regen?

Pots are 1 use and 2 minute duration (endo anyway).

You're pretty much going to be using blue ones (endo3) unless you want to farm for the dropped mats required to make Endo4 ones.

Tireless is close to pointless. It's not NF's free endo 1 for all style classes. Instead its 1% endo per rank, every 8 seconds if you are in combat or moving. Its more if you're doing neither of those but that doesn't help.

My suggestion is run LW2 and pop those blue pots on inc, that's what I'll be doing for solo. You can also use an endo heal pot in mid buts that comes with a 1 min cooldown.

I think a lot of people will group paladins and learn how to play with that. (If Pally is rooted, get him to intercept something quick, etc.)

Not sure were you get that info on Tireless from Nezix? Can you link a source? Thou its not as good as endo 1 per lvl, it will probably be necessary for any tank to go tireless2. And some points into lw as well. Gona have to try out on beta thou. Tireless have been ok on other classic freeshards so we will see.

And when it comes to pala. No set grp will ever run a pala if thay want to be competative. Its a completely useless 8v8 class. So every grp will have to run full stacked on endu 3 pots.. gona be a pain..

Skyy wrote:Not sure were you get that info on Tireless from Nezix? Can you link a source? Thou its not as good as endo 1 per lvl, it will probably be necessary for any tank to go tireless2. And some points into lw as well. Gona have to try out on beta thou. Tireless have been ok on other classic freeshards so we will see.

And when it comes to pala. No set grp will ever run a pala if thay want to be competative. Its a completely useless 8v8 class. So every grp will have to run full stacked on endu 3 pots.. gona be a pain..

Tireless has been incredibly bugged on other free shards more like hehe.

Seriously if you can google a single source from before new RAs where someone says Tireless is worth taking beyond 1 point I will be shocked. Most will tell you not even to bother with 1.

I will try to find my source for you but trust me in the mean time.

You will also find alot of sources telling you that Friar, Paladin and Reaver is the new Alb Fotm Setup and incredible strong.

Stolen shamelessly from another thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0IJFHBtt2A&feature=youtu.be&t=4m50s

He regens a tiny tick of endo at around 4:55 / 56 and then again 8 seconds later.

People crapping on Tireless:
http://lighttanksofdaoc.yuku.com/topic/392/Realm-Ability-Review-Mercenary-RAs#.Vyi1I_krJGp
https://forums.freddyshouse.com/threads/permasprint.6063/
https://forums.freddyshouse.com/threads/thoughts-on-minstrel-ras.167015/

A discussion regarding the new "free" non-RA tireless:
https://forums.freddyshouse.com/threads/how-much-tireless-long-wind-is-needed-to-run-without-losing-end.176999/

old tireless gave you 1pt of end every week per level of the ability. Had to go to the post office to collect it as well.

Perhaps the most damning:
http://forums.jeuxonline.info/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153522&highlight=infatigable+test
Google translated:

with the RA level 1, in action (fight, work ...) 14 minutes

It goes on to say that the implementation isn't even 1% per rank but worse.

But the 14m is pretty accurate. 1% per 8 seconds = 800 seconds to regen to full while moving/fighting (but not consuming endo via sprint or styles).
800 / 60 = 13.33 minutes.

Nezix wrote:regen to full while moving/fighting

non sprinting/unstyled

Ilerget wrote:

Nezix wrote:regen to full while moving/fighting

non sprinting/unstyled

Edited for clarification

I could quote from the same threads you linked

tireless = end regen 1 = 1 end per second

sprinting costs 5 end per second

With tireless it's 4 end per second.

Long wind reduces your end cost of sprinting by 1 point per level.

So:

With an end pot (end regen 3) you need long wind 2 to permasprint.
With tirleess you need long wind 4.
Without tireless you need long wind 5.

Tireless 1 is no way near as good as the new passive one, but not as bad as people make it out to be. If your trying to research how something worked back than do it right. Some argument on a forum between people who had no idea how the game worked is no proof at all.

Because of things like that there was a 5 second immunuty shield after perfect rezz and a 20% value on snares on Utghard 1.0 and those retarded versions of SoS on Genesis.

Edit: To clarify it's just a random quote to show how clueless most people were.

Raifs I respect your opinion but the research post and video make a pretty solid case for at least Tireless 1 being 1% every 8 seconds.

Other evidence would be great.

Razzer wrote:

Madruk wrote:ok wie die überschrift schon fast erklärt,würde ich hier gern einen post eröffnen,in dem die spieler die sich mit den alten ra´s auskennen,den spielern diese erklären die sich damit eben halt nicht so gut auskennen.
ich hoffe das so einige fragen geklärt werden können.ich fang gleich mal an
1. wirkt tireless auf höster stufe so gut wie der höchste enduregnchant vom pala?

2.kann ich einen gegner slamen,und in diesen 9 sekunden first aid benutzen?


ja das waren dann erstmal meine 2 fragen dazu.ich hoffe da kommen noch paar dazu.
oder evtl gibt es ja auch einen link dazu,in deutsch wenn möglich.daoc-pedia habe ich mir schon angeschaut aber ,die seite erklärt mir meine 2 fragen nicht so wie ich mir das vorstelle.
also danke schon mal an euch bb

@1 ja, pro Tick bekommst du soviel wie von einem endu5 Chant aber:
Ein Tick kommt im Kampf alle 14 Sekunden, im Stehen alle 10 Sekunden und im Sitzen alle 3 Sekunden.
Beim Pala bekommst du alles 5s Endu egal ob du kämpfst, stehst oder sitzst.

@2 nein, erst nachdem die combatflag abgelaufen ist (=10s)

That would be a quote from an ex staff member. It basicly says:

Tireless Endurance Regeneration Value = Paladin Chant Value, but on a slower rate.

So are we basically saying that alb groups will NOT be perma sprinting then? Clearly noone is going to keep up a 2min 1 charge potion and have to go restock every hour or so.. or do we think groups will just take paladins and then possibly not a minstrel?

Some tough choices for albion here!

Connavar wrote:So are we basically saying that alb groups will NOT be perma sprinting then? Clearly noone is going to keep up a 2min 1 charge potion and have to go restock every hour or so.. or do we think groups will just take paladins and then possibly not a minstrel?

Some tough choices for albion here!

I don't think anyone is expecting Alb to Speed 6 without a Paladin. And we're not going to leave out a Minstrel with SoS either.

I expect that:
a) people will learn how to use a Paladin despite all this paper daoc.
b) many groups won't run a Paladin but will pop endo pots on inc

Here are some related paladin questions:

What range had chants got at 1.65? (so how far away would he need to be rooted to be made ineffective)

I assume the chant currently running stops when the paladin is mezzed?

I guess with the paladin being in backlines he can at least get demezzed and therefore still be chanting even if rooted.

only root should worry a paladin, if they let him mezzed must look for a not so bad grp.