-l- Edgtho -l- wrote:casanova tree

*rubbing his branch and watches it growing like pinoccios nose at telling lies*

teddie wrote:You can always grp my matter-sorc!

silenced wrote:

teddie wrote:You can always grp my matter-sorc!

Does this even matter?

-l- Edgtho -l- wrote:more the branch or more the night?

lordgriffon wrote:

majky666 wrote:

Abydos wrote:Who doesn't like lobbing fireballs at people?

Elitist groups, due no utility of fire wizz He can only throw fireballs and burn enemies with his spells. Nothing else.

Yeah, don't forget their ability to root, slow, VP, etc... don't discount the firewiz. Too many like you learned the hard way. Put a good player that is determined behind a firewiz and you'd be very surprised how well they can do against the mediocre player playing the easy I-win pushbutton classes of the other realms.

Laugh all you want, but I did end up as the #5 Wizard on the server and as Full Fire believe it or not.

ACrispyTaco wrote:It's more about how people want the server to do well and stay populated, but if you play a class they don't like they won't play with you. How is that sort of behavior and attitude GOOD for the server? It isn't, it drives people away. Unfortunately it isn't just 1 or 2 people doing this sort of thing. I noticed nearly every group I was in with my Wizard from 1-50 had at least 1 person who would raise a stink about you playing "The Wrong Class".

lordgriffon wrote:

Outphaze wrote:

ACrispyTaco wrote:

3 wizzies with VP, mixed with 1 class with proper debuffs/CC, 2 clerics and 2 tanks for heals and peals and that group owns everything on the field. END OF F*CKING STORY. Period. Just because you have never seen anything like this doesn't mean it hasn't happened or that it can't happen again. Of course I COULD use your own logic against you and say something like .. "since you can't fathom a group like this, then players like you must be unintelligent"... but that would be unfair now wouldn't it?

lordgriffon wrote:3 wizzies with VP, mixed with 1 class with proper debuffs/CC, 2 clerics and 2 tanks for heals and peals and that group owns everything on the field. END OF F*CKING STORY. Period.

lordgriffon wrote:3 wizzies with VP, mixed with 1 class with proper debuffs/CC, 2 clerics and 2 tanks for heals and peals and that group owns everything on the field. END OF F*CKING STORY. Period. Just because you have never seen anything like this doesn't mean it hasn't happened or that it can't happen again.

lordgriffon wrote:

Outphaze wrote:

ACrispyTaco wrote:It's more about how people want the server to do well and stay populated, but if you play a class they don't like they won't play with you. How is that sort of behavior and attitude GOOD for the server? It isn't, it drives people away. Unfortunately it isn't just 1 or 2 people doing this sort of thing. I noticed nearly every group I was in with my Wizard from 1-50 had at least 1 person who would raise a stink about you playing "The Wrong Class".

Jesus I am so tired of people making this argument. RVR is about having fun. To most people, they have more fun when they're winning than losing. MOST PEOPLE. I get that you're going to reply with "naw dude I have fun no matter wut!"

Some classes are better than others for 8v8, and offer the group a better chance of winning. It's not rocket science to understand why people prefer some classes over others. Since this game has been out for 15 years, everyone knows which classes aren't liked by 8mans... So when people make a fire wizard or mana mentalist and STILL expect to get invited to a 8v8 group, I have to conclude that they're not very intelligent.

Would you form a group with 8x smite clerics? What about a 8x untemplated infiltrators? It's the same concept.

First of all I am not one of those ones that expects to get invited to the "elite" menatality of "you better play the right class or else" type of groups. Just because I happen to play one of the classes that YOU and YOUR kind do not want does not make me
"blah blah blah...not very intelligent".

This thread was not meant to insult others so I do not understand why you just Had to go down the road of : since some players play the unwanted classes they must not have a brain... there was NO CALL for that type of sentiment.
YOU are precisely the type of player that gets WTFPWNED by a group of unconventional classes because YOU refuse to get your mind outside of cookie-cutter mode and learn how to incorporate these said classes into a more formidable group.


3 wizzies with VP, mixed with 1 class with proper debuffs/CC, 2 clerics and 2 tanks for heals and peals and that group owns everything on the field. END OF F*CKING STORY. Period. Just because you have never seen anything like this doesn't mean it hasn't happened or that it can't happen again. Of course I COULD use your own logic against you and say something like .. "since you can't fathom a group like this, then players like you must be unintelligent"... but that would be unfair now wouldn't it?

Now, how about we have an adult disagreement about class effectiveness without us having to go down the road of insulting each other's intelligence? Since after all, that's what this thread was about anyways eh?

Oh by the way... ever seen a group of 8 smite clerics? Or play against a group like that? I have. Absolute devastation. The group that runs up against them can't kill them fast enough because smite clerics have sooooooo many tools at their disposal combined with decent ranged damage with 8 of them dudes doing it!

Next time you want to come up with an insane group mix, try not to laugh at it too hard until you have a chance to see one. I mean.. who would put 4 infiltrators, 2 scouts and 2 minstrels in a group? Oh yeah.. that happens more often than would be admitted yet those unconventional groups do extremely well.
Key here is playing to your group's strengths and not the group's weaknesses.

What this thread is about is about what a wizard, more specifically what a Fire wizard CAN do, and NOT what he can't do. So think about this for a moment, if a group can have 2 or more of the same class in a group, then why are YOU assuming that a group can't have more than 1 wizard, or 1 cabby, or 1 theurgist... oh yeah.. "groups lose utility" argument arises -- well that argument would apply to the all stealther group I mentioned above yet that group does great in it's proper settings.

Oh, well then the argument comes up "the fire wizard does great for relic defense", true that, but that is NOT the only settting a fire wiz can do well in. Hence where the problem arises because the close minded players who refuse to allow for the appearance of a fire wizard in normal rvr situations still somehow expect said fire wizard to grow somehow and be there when they need them to protect their relic sh*t from being taken.
Can't have your cake and eat it too.

2nd point, I am also not one of the ones that tries to dictate how YOU play. If you wish to just 8 man it your entire career in DAOC, go for it. I do not insult, nor encourage insulting of your intelligence, manhood, or immaturity for doing so. None of those types of insults would carry any weight, and they are not called for.
All I am asking here is SOME consideration of possibilities that YOU may not have considered in all your vast years of playing DAOC (I personally have played this game since launch 2001). Just because you may not have come across a good fire wizard group doesn't mean they didn't exist.
There ARE players that HAVE played in groups like that that will tell you something that would be completely contrary to your opinion and I'd hate for you to have to have some kind of brain anerysm trying to wrap your mind around the idea that you just might have been wrong in your initial analysis.
I mean, surely you didn't think that your 8 man group and those like you were the only ones playing DAOC? Did you know that when DAOC was made that 8 man groups was not it's intent? The intent of the game was for hundreds of players to be fighting over the same objective at the same time which totally blows the 8 man concept out of water.

However that being said, DAOC was a platform that did allow for small group action in the form of 8 man. Oh btw, yes I have been in 8 man groups on the retail servers.. Lancelot to be more specific and played several character classes there, Fire wizard being one of them. When we got tired and bored with cookie cutter, we would switch to unconventional class make ups and totally cream the hibs and mids.
We knew we couldn't do that very often because those kids would pack up their toys and go home after being demolished like that by lower RR classes that aren't supposed to be in an 8 man group.

Now, as far as cookie cutter alb groups, we all already know how spread out all their abilities and tools are. That's not up for debate. The problem with a cookie cutter group is that it only allows for certain types of classes. But there are other types of groups that have the capability of so much more destruction if they are properly made with the same individual specialized skill for those classes. I say this because yes, while it's true that the other realms have more access to more tools in fewer classes, their problem is they can only hit so many buttons and pop off so many skills at the same time that going against one of us albs in all honesty doesn't make that much of a difference in the grand scale of things. Like I stated before, I'd take a determined Fire Wizard against a mediocre eldritch any day of the week.

So let the lesson be learned here, that Fire Wizards, just like any other unconventional class CAN operate in an RvR group, but it has to be under certain types of circumstances.
Just like the cookie cutter group also can ONLY operate under even more strict conditions. I mean, think about it. 8 man groups are limiting themselves to just small part of RvR while the other types of groups can do ANY-FRICKING thing they want.

So for those considering playing a Fire Wizard don't let the 8 man nay-sayers "you must not be intelligent for playing a class like that" discourage you. There ARE players like myself out there that will group you and grow with you.
Trust me, WE have more fun than them. They at best only win half the time.