Will you be able to target milegate doors and aoe them even if you got LoS, like it was possible on live servers?

Roenik wrote:My definition of an Elitist is someone who discourages other players from playing the game the way they want to play it. They almost always exclude other people from anything whatsoever in the game world. They tend to get their panties in a wad if anyone outside their circle joins in for keep takes, relic defense, or anything else related to the community from making themselves better at the game and advancing up the RR ladder. They like to keep things secret, so no one else can participate in Realm activities where RvR is concerned. In the PvE world, they are the ones who run over the small group of players because they feel themselves to be more important. They try to dominate nice camp spots, because they need to level before anyone else, due to the fact that they think the survival of the Frontier depends solely upon their leet gaming skillz. Too many other examples to list..

there is for sure people like this and yes some aspects of being elitest u are quite correct such as my set grp would not share secrets,
but discouraging players i dnt think so, u cannot easily stereotype all elitests. and an unfortunate fact to being elitest is u give a sh it about everything remotely concerning u and ur reputation,

but i see ur point, nice post.

Roenik wrote:Alot of comparison between "Veterans" and "elitists" goin on...

Scalado wrote:Finally, and probably most controversial, it is time to stop hiding in the BGs, because it unnecessarily splits the RvR community. I love the BGs, too, but they are intended as a nice distraction on the way to 50, not a means unto themselves. If you think this is forcing a gamestyle, to a degree it is. But if you are so afraid of Emain, then you can still reroll endless BG chars. In the long-run, shifting the focus on endgame RvR is the correct decision and once you actually play there, instead of wasting time concocting tearful threads on the forums, you will see that it isn't a fraction as bad as you have portrayed it to be.

GREAT POSTS!! I agree 110%. I certainly toed the line between Roeniks idea of veteran and elitist.

I certainly was not a person to tell a player how to play there toon. I would also always be willing to help new players with templates or character questions. Some would listen and take advice, others would not. I made detailed guides to help hunters and rangers so they could have a resource to go to. I helped fix bugs that others that played my classes abused. These things were "veteran" like.

Now for my elitist side, I would ask that people not add my solo fights, but it was generally because there would only be 1-2 players to fight and if 3 people added them then they would most likely not come back. I also did not jump down players throats when they added me. After asking nicely if they would not add, if they continued then I simply move somewhere else. Which brings me to my next point...

Baman wrote:I'm hoping maybe there will be enough people to police the cool-kids-teamspeak-x-realmer club that hangs out rezzing and dueling over and over farming rps at amg. That's not rvr. You should have to look for someone to fight, not kill people you are really friends with again and again.

I took part in some of these. I never took rez's after fights, but I was around for SOME of these. Many times they resulted because of a lack of action and there being 2-3 players from 1-3 realms taking turns solo fighting each other. I agree that it was not ideal and was certainly not what Mythic had in mind when they came up with RvR, but it was something that resulted from a lack of players in RvR, and I don't think most the players that did this were doing it with nefarious intentions.

What is interesting is when two different realms share the same voice chat and are helping crowd control and dump on the 3rd realm.

relvinian wrote:What is interesting is when two different realms share the same voice chat and are helping crowd control and dump on the 3rd realm.

said the negative topic generator.

relvinian wrote:What is interesting is when two different realms share the same voice chat and are helping crowd control and dump on the 3rd realm.

well cc for another realm to help em against the third realm is actually one of the fundamentals of daoc 3way rvr ... combine forces to kill the greater enemy
most of the time ppl werent even in the same voip but were just reaction fast enough
its actually funny the fact that everyone knows that 8vs8 grps only want 8vs8 they dont want 8vs9 or 16 vs 8 so the possiblity to have these 2 grps combine to attack the third grp wich adds or a zerg wich roams next to em is kinda high nothing to complain about there ... actually ppl are allways talking about how they want to play the way THEY want not like the elitists ... so in return dont try to make the elitists play your way because its clearly not the way they want to play

What it feels like opening this thread.

Worked my way through this entire thread once again...
Gawds I'd like to have some sort of [ spolier ] container or whatever, I really don't feel like posting walls of text to bury people who probably aren't even interested in most of what I think/write. But I will use the [ code ] box again. Sorry for the eye-cancer:

Code: Select all

[quote="dabri0n"]If you play on same skill level RA's absolutely decide fights. The 30min timers of most old RA will make it less of an issue though. Just dont spend 20mins on analysis and ****** after a wipe.. ;) Endure the losses and bring the fight back to the enemy while RA's are down.[/quote]
Wait. What?
You say RAs absolutely decide fights in the first sentence and then say endure losses and bring back the fight while RAs are down?
I might have missed something here, but what will that do despite feeding RPs.. again?
Please explain.

[quote="Oswaldo"]On live it was like that... imo its good, this kinda forces you  to go into real rvr[..]![/quote]
No it's not. And no, it doesn't either. And it won't "force" people to do anything.
Some will be driven into big RvR, some will not. And I think (just a wild guess), most of the people who really enjoyed the BGs as they used to be will simply not go into "real" RvR or stick to keepraids/tasks to get their RR up, because you are not competivite with 1L9 (or 2L0 since I guess you can actually make that before you get booted).
And that's a fact. You can't argue with that.
It may not be relevant the first couple of days after the launch, but combined with RPs for greys and no RPs while dead it will get worse after the first groups hit 50 and start farming RPs off of xp'ers and other RR2 groups.
When you add a certain amount of RPs to your current RPs and the other guy does not (because you killed him), you will have more RPs afterwards and he will not. This is in no way meant to be a complaint, it's just fact.

[quote="Roenik"][..]I just hope we can get away from the mindset that you have to have "X" to join a rvr group, or you have to be buddies with "x" to join a group.[..][/quote]
While I never experienced such an issue, i still agree. Another thing to add to the list of things to get away from is the end- and senseless discussion about "adding".
Red = dead. Rather share some RPs with realm mates than with realm enemies. Especially with "no RPs while dead".

[quote="Trishin"]Please remember that this will be the same for everyone. So there will also be an increase of characters below RR5 in the frontiers since the journey from the last BG (1L9) is longer to RR5 than it was with 4L2 being the last BG cap.[/quote]
No. It won't. It will not be the same for everyone after a week or two have passed. It's even worse with Old RAs like I mentioned before (4 points tax for most classes).

[quote="Jerrian"][..]
As Blue once said, he would like to have a complete server where not much changes have to be made later and I totally agree to this.[..][/quote]
I agree to that idea, but 1.65 is the wrong patchlevel to realize that idea with.
Many changes (not all of them of course) were made for good reasons, to improve the game (like removing the +12 stat RA, a useless prerequisite tax).

[quote="blubbo"][..]I honestly question myself if this oldschool setting is still acceptable nowadays. If you would provide both, some battlegrounds (rr4-rr7, rr7-rr10...) AND the frontiers, I am pretty sure that 80% of the people (also those who played PvE-only before) would play in the battlegrounds and not in the frontiers. It's slightly less time consuming and thus a lot more fun![..][/quote]
This.

[quote="Oswaldo"]Yes lets split the population in more different areas! my god you people are so freaking stupid, complaining about not enough action in the frontiers, so you want bgs.. imagine, like its going to be now.. there will be no bg to lvl 49, which forces people into real rvr, then the amount of people in the frontiers will freaking rise...
[..]
Honestly if all of you believe you have a perfect solution for a daoc server, maybe open your own server? heck pay me for coding and ill do it for you :D[/quote]
No, it will not. You can't force people to play RvR. Of course you can make the game so horribly crippled and borderline retarded that one [i]needs[/i] to RvR for his class to be playable. But then again, people could still choose simply not to play.
You cannot force people to feed other guys' RPs bank. And throwing insults around doesn't do anything good, either.
And by the way, I would try to set up my own daoc server if I had the time and resources needed to do so, no worries.

[quote="Scalado"]Although I always enjoyed battlegrounds, I applaud the shifting focus on big boy RvR. In the long run, it can only help the population in the frontiers because less people will be inclined to reroll endless battleground chars.[..][/quote]
I dare saying quite the opposite is the fact because it takes way less time to grind to 35 than it took to get to 49.5.
And neither the use- and senseless removal of /xp off, nor anything else can prohibit this.
I never rerolled a char explicitly for BGs, but I liked the BGs way more than RvR. Less hassle, less feeding to already OP'ed SGs.
It's not even about "fairness". It's about having fun.
I play this game because I have fun doing so. But I have no fun when I feed RPs to stronger enemies and in return, get nothing for my time. So I stop feeding RPs to enemies and go back to what I enjoy.
Unfortunately, with the removal of Tajendi, the BGs Braemar, Wilton and Thidranki as they used to be, plus the character-crippling 1.65 and Old RAs, there wont be much left of it here on Uthgard 2.0 gameplay-wise.
But I've always been a PvE-w***e anyway :lol:

[quote="relvinian"][..]Telling people they don't like it to quit.  Telling people to quit crying.  Personal attacks.
This is the standard playbook for this forum.[/quote]
It's because this game affects people on an emotional level. And while that is something to aim at for virtually every game and their developers, it leads to some prepubescent behaviour if someone doesn't match, fit, or otherwise at least remotely agrees with the own point of view and leashing out because we can conveniently sit behind our keyboards and pressing keys doesn't "really" hurt anyone.
I think people should listen to other people who can discuss issues in a rational manner without insulting other participants. And to no one else, because listening to emotional bullcrap ultimately leads to making long-term decisions on short-term feelings.
Which is never, ever a good thing.

[quote="CaptnIglo"][..]The question is:
Can an old game like Daoc cope with the impact of leaving casuals? If the answer is yes, then I sincerly wish you lots of fun on Uthgard. The server's made for players like you, less for players like me. But if the answer is no, then maybe you should rethink your "Don't let the door hit you"-attitude before the whole thing ends up with the same old "500 players max at prime time"-scenario.

Or to put it this way:
There's plenty other games for me to play, but will there be plenty of other Daoc players for you to rvr against?[/quote]
Bullseye right there.

[quote="hyshash"]all this complaint about bgs ...
how about you guys start to think about a solution to make "big boyz" rvr more interessting for casuals ? (appart from gogo zerg wich is still a rly viable solution ...theres a reason 90% of live's rvr was zerging)

and i hated thid on uth for it splitting the allready small population into even smaller parts ... there has to be a part for everyone in real rvr instead of that fastfood ****** (did i hear matchmaking ? rofl srsly dafuq ? ) some ppl want to implement here and its the staffs as well as the communitys job to create these parts (by implementing mechanics wich support every playstyle and every skillvl and by actually using these mechanics like forming zergs(battlegrps) wich actually act as a zerg and not as 4 single grps wich do whatever they want)[/quote]
End endgame RvR would be more casual-friendly if they didn't [i]have to[/i] get out there at 2L0. And please notice the emphasis here. It's ok to go roaming frontiers with level 40 and 1L4 if you want to, no questions asked. But removing higher level BGs does in not a single way help in supporting "every playstyle". It's literally the opposite. That's what the complaints are about (I think).
But to be fair - 4 single groups looking for 8v8 fights while hating others for "adding" is to 95% a playerbase issue. Sad we'll have mechanics supporting these.

[quote="Skarz"][..]comes bk to my origonal point. why change a successful game[..][/quote]
Well, on live servers changes were made to generate more profit, that's for sure. But let's be honest here, not every single thing that was changed in the game was made worse than it was before. Seriously. 1.65 has its flaws just like ToA, Cata, Labyrinth, etc. had afterwards.

[quote="silenced"][..]For all those that do not like he patch level they're aiming for: You do not have to play on Uthgard. It's your VERY own decision to play on Uthgard. If you are even unable to accept your very own decisions, well, try something else. You do not have to like it, sure, but complaining about all the time is not the right way either. In the end you'll be here anyways, since there's no better alternative server.[/quote]
With that last sentence you basically invalidated your whole post.
And just to make one thing perfectly clear: I don't think Uthgard Staff is doing a bad job on the game.
I just don't think 1.65 is the right patchlevel to actually stick with, once livelikeness has been achieved. And I don't think Uthgard 2.0 would be having as many players if there was another shard with a more sensible patchlevel and an equal amount of experience in handling the game, but as you just stated, there is no (better) alternative.

[quote="-l- Edgtho -l-"][..]but without allowed add you wont see any casual grp out there.
and noone will build a zerg for them so they stick to pve.[..][/quote]
Didn't Uthgard 1.0 already state "Noone is allowed to forbid you attacking realm enemies!" rule already?
I dare people to try forbidding me attacking any reds if I force myself to do RvR every once in a while, haha :lol:

[quote="relvinian"][..]If Uthgard removes the xp cap for low levels in groups with 50's then aoe dots groups-- Mentalist, cabalist, shaman, will be the most efficient way to xp.  You aoe dot a large mass and run around til they die.  Once you have a level 50 ment, cab, sham, then you can pl whoever you want.[..][/quote]
While I agree with you for most of what I've seen you posting in the threads I'm monitoring currently, I think you might be mistaken here.
I'm not totally sure about if that was a custom change, but Uthgard 1.0 had xp modifiers if the difference in levels between groupmembers was too high. And that was good because it did prevent exactly what's happening on Genesis.

[quote="devilsfury"][..]All valid points in trying to help the casual along but you have literally the same 2 "elitists" on here making post after post about how casuals are lazy, blah blah blah.  I played on Uthgard for several years, had around 12 lvl 50's because I enjoyed PvE and helping the lower level people get strong.  I did some RvR but didnt enjoy hitting 8L+ groups roaming and having zero chance at beating them.  Did I try?? Yes, many times but ended up getting killed.  I kept at it over and over until I got a few of my guys up to 5L or so but it barely made a difference.  You see, the elitists will just say we are whiners and criers but we do help the economy of the game, help lvl small/new players, craft(a lot) and just in general want to have fun.  As much as I loved this server, the changes are not healthy to the casual.  Probably 25% of the population will race to lvl 50 as fast as possible so they can RvR and not enjoy just playing the game.  This is what most of the elitists are missing, a lot of us enjoy the fun of the grind and playing with different people and questing.  Its not all about 50 RvR.[..][/quote]
I totally agree. It's sad people reference to "our" type of players as being "lazy" just because they don't have fun being cannonfodder for the "big guys" and simultaneously miss the fact that we are the ones (partially) providing them with fresh meat for their grinder.

[quote="Baman"][quote="relvinian"][and there are players who log out of the game the 3-4th time that they get killed by greygankers while xping.[/quote]
Because as we all know, you can only level characters in RvR zones. All other mobs in the game are worth 0 xp.[/quote]
Although I'm no fan of greygankers in general, I have to agree with Baman on that one.
If I have enough of getting ganked on Genesis, I move into a non-RvR zone. Problem solved. Plus you can use tinderboxes in the homelands (I guess they won't be available on Uthgard 2.0, but you get the point).
Crying about greygankers and not doing anything to prevent getting ganked is probably one of the reasons some players call others "lazy" and "whiners".


TL;DR:

ZaiQQ wrote:[offsite URL removed due to "spamy" alert]

What it feels like opening this thread.

!
I agree. Although we might share that initial reaction, probably different reasons are the cause for it

PS: Damn it takes half a day to read 10 pages in the forum... Guess I'm a slow reader...

@ Feye
I ´m not so happy either about the way it goes, but that ´s not a topic it ´s worth talk about because the road or better said the destination is given by staff. it ´s not road 66 it ´s 1.65 and we have to deal with it no matter what, the only things that are unknown and worth a consideration are the few exceptions. Well I think we ´ve to be patient with the grab ba(g)ck and the answers of the staff.

A friend of mine asked me today what will release first, Uthgard 2.0 or Camelot Unchained, I wasn ´t sure about it. We are talking about the Uth content now, what makes sense because it ´s useless to ask about a release date, it ´s quite unknown. But I would like to know about the state of the optimized main code, I hope staff is happy with the current progress.

Jerrian wrote:@ Feye
I ´m not so happy either about the way it goes, but that ´s not a topic it ´s worth talk about because the road or better said the destination is given by staff. it ´s not road 66 it ´s 1.65 and we have to deal with it no matter what, the only things that are unknown and worth a consideration are the few exceptions. Well I think we ´ve to be patient with the grab ba(g)ck and the answers of the staff.

A friend of mine asked me today what will release first, Uthgard 2.0 or Camelot Unchained, I wasn ´t sure about it. We are talking about the Uth content now, what makes sense because it ´s useless to ask about a release date, it ´s quite unknown. But I would like to know about the state of the optimized main code, I hope staff is happy with the current progress.

Maybe some of us do not have much choice but to play because we are vets and daoc addicts but the questions isnt if we have any choice but rather do new players have a choice.

New players have never played before and if they cannot get started or end up just being farmed they can and WILL choose not to play here.

The real point of my entire forum history on these topics of no rps while dead and rps for greys and other issues around the new player to the game is that I SEEM TO BE THE ONLY PERSON INTERESTED IN THE TOPIC.

Recipe for failure is to ignore or not care about bringing new players to the game and keeping them once they are here.

It is like building a great car and forgetting to put a gas tank in it.

relvinian wrote:

Jerrian wrote:@ Feye
I ´m not so happy either about the way it goes, but that ´s not a topic it ´s worth talk about because the road or better said the destination is given by staff. it ´s not road 66 it ´s 1.65 and we have to deal with it no matter what, the only things that are unknown and worth a consideration are the few exceptions. Well I think we ´ve to be patient with the grab ba(g)ck and the answers of the staff.

A friend of mine asked me today what will release first, Uthgard 2.0 or Camelot Unchained, I wasn ´t sure about it. We are talking about the Uth content now, what makes sense because it ´s useless to ask about a release date, it ´s quite unknown. But I would like to know about the state of the optimized main code, I hope staff is happy with the current progress.

Maybe some of us do not have much choice but to play because we are vets and daoc addicts but the questions isnt if we have any choice but rather do new players have a choice.

New players have never played before and if they cannot get started or end up just being farmed they can and WILL choose not to play here.

The real point of my entire forum history on these topics of no rps while dead and rps for greys and other issues around the new player to the game is that I SEEM TO BE THE ONLY PERSON INTERESTED IN THE TOPIC.

Recipe for failure is to ignore or not care about bringing new players to the game and keeping them once they are here.

It is like building a great car and forgetting to put a gas tank in it.

I actually completely agree, new players are very important if we want to have a decent pop. I would not change major things in order to attract new players but giving them choices in how they want to play the game, not being used to further the RPS of veteran players I think are some things that would be good.

Why give rps for grey players? Does it give asshole players the excuse they need to gank lowbies? I might at 50 kill some lowbie because I am feeling assholish at the moment but that doesn't mean I should be rewarded for it. Sadly by limiting the bgs to max out at such a low level you almost force still relatively new players to go out and get slaughtered. Sure they will learn eventually... but while they are getting slaughtered... oops I meant learning the veteran players will be getting that much farther ahead.

New players will get ****** over and over again because A. they don't have the skill that veteran players do and B. Because asshole players are getting rewarded for killing them (when grey). I don't believe that is going to help the population at all. If the goal is only to cater to veteran players then it will work out just fine.

Oh and to all you people to claim you will help newbies, I call bullshit. You don't and you won't help out anyone unless it benefits you. The only reason people want to get rps for grey's is because they are jerks.

Here to remind everyone that the only place greys can be killed in is DF (nobody levels up in the frontiers and even if they do the spots are few and nobody looks there) AND THAT'S COMPLETELY FINE since it's an RvR area and people were already killing greys on uth 1.0 for all the reasons of this world, either they granted RPs or not
Some overdramatic replies are depicting it like 'new players' aren't safe even in their own realm maps...

Will Uthgard 2.0 have ROG?

All this grey ganking/rp's for greys is completely out of perspective imho, grey ganking is only possible if these greys go into very specific areas to level with an xp bonus, so it is their choice to take that risk, nobody forces them to level there.

Especially players new to DAoC would be the last ones insisting to go to these areas with an xp bonus.
I can only imagine that elitists (there is that word again) who want, no need, to level to 50 as fast as possible, will insist to go into these areas but then are the ones who are crying the loudest about being ganked by even more elitist players which already have a higher level ... so sad for them (not really) but not at all for the greater player community

cheers

Yes, if you are a vet come to the frontier and xp where you will gain xp faster. If you are a new player don't go where the experienced players are xping and getting groups and good xp, go somewhere where that bonus isn't.

Far fetched.

Also, no benefit at all for rps for greys but a downside. Just like there is no benefit at all-- and in fact lots of downsides which I could sit down and write them all out-- for no rps while dead.

Basically its like saying we found a cure for measles but we like measles so lets all have measles. No upside, painfully stupid downside, and hey-- lets all have measles.