-l- Edgtho -l- wrote:

Juri wrote:

relvinian wrote:All good points. A sustainable daoc server with an adequate population needs casual players and to be friendly to new players. And it isn't just the people at 50 in the frontier rvring that matter. There is also such a thing as an economy. Also they call this type of game a massively multiplayer online game-- the idea is to support large numbers of players, to have a community, an economy, and to encourage many different stories to he shared and told by the devs and the players and to allow many different play styles. The game requires interdependence and cooperation but still allows for solo and casual play.

So what is it that you want, exactly? A babysitter that takes you into each phase of the game, starting from PvE by taking you to 50, gifting you a full capped tp and then takes you with him in RvR, granting you 30k pr/day while teaching you the secrets on how to be good at this game?

Would that make it more 'casual friendly'?

exactly this is what they want/need and this is what i want to try to provide to the casuals on uth2.
we have to accept that our pls dont add acting is what lowers the population in rvr zones most.
and tbh if there are casualgrps noone really mind if they add each other... but without allowed add you wont see any casual grp out there.
and noone will build a zerg for them so they stick to pve.

i hope i can change some issues which casuals are faced to and provide a casual friendly community, BUT in a all in all unfriendly enviroment!

All valid points in trying to help the casual along but you have literally the same 2 "elitists" on here making post after post about how casuals are lazy, blah blah blah. I played on Uthgard for several years, had around 12 lvl 50's because I enjoyed PvE and helping the lower level people get strong. I did some RvR but didnt enjoy hitting 8L+ groups roaming and having zero chance at beating them. Did I try?? Yes, many times but ended up getting killed. I kept at it over and over until I got a few of my guys up to 5L or so but it barely made a difference. You see, the elitists will just say we are whiners and criers but we do help the economy of the game, help lvl small/new players, craft(a lot) and just in general want to have fun. As much as I loved this server, the changes are not healthy to the casual. Probably 25% of the population will race to lvl 50 as fast as possible so they can RvR and not enjoy just playing the game. This is what most of the elitists are missing, a lot of us enjoy the fun of the grind and playing with different people and questing. Its not all about 50 RvR. Sadly, I agree with what several people have said, at the beginning the server will be booming! After 6-12 months you will be lucky to see 300 online due to all of the changes. Its sad really. Ill try it and I'm trying to be hopeful that I will like it. If not, Ill have to go.

relvinian wrote:

Oswaldo wrote:What is all this bs about vets pling their alts..

same bs over and over again in these posts.. this is getting old ._.

Make a character on Genesis and hit /lfg and type out /lfg 5 newb lfg or 10 cleric lfg or 17 ranger lfg and you can spam that all day long and not find a group. You can also form your own groups and sometimes get some success. Or if you hit a pl group, like i did on an alt the other day I went from lvl 24 to lvl 38 in two hours.

If Uthgard removes the xp cap for low levels in groups with 50's then aoe dots groups-- Mentalist, cabalist, shaman, will be the most efficient way to xp. You aoe dot a large mass and run around til they die. Once you have a level 50 ment, cab, sham, then you can pl whoever you want.

Eventually you will have the few new players logging in spamming lfg all day long and having a hard time finding a group. All the vets with their templated 50s can powerlevel their alts at will. You start new and solo xp on off times and you might have a /played of 15 days to 50. Have a pl guild group ur 50 /played might be 7 hours.

People talk about my crystal ball or my ability to read the future. No, it is just an understanding of history and what I know of the nature of people. They don't like to work harder than they have to and they like to get results for their work.

When there is a environment that is too far out of whack between vets and newbs then there is no need to make things even worse by giving rps for greys and no rps while dead.

You will have lvl 50 toons in a couple days out ganking greys xping. In a few months the xp environment will be just as I describe with difficulty finding groups except for the vets who can pl their alts.

I don't have any problem with a tough environment but I do have a problem with almost deliberately ignoring reality of what will be and seeming not to care at all, even to encourage new players being fed into the vet grinder.

Because people will not play, they will leave, and we will lose the potential of a great server and end up with another pointless jerk off with a small population of the same people.

You seem so bitter and negative it is almost unreal to believe... I leveled very easily through groups on Uthgard even in the January before the server closed. I've said it many a time that there are people out there making groups and leveling together... and sometimes there aren't, but if you really spend your whole day spamming /lfg without taking any initiative to try and solo as well during that time then no wonder you fail. Do you fail to see that your posts are nothing but negative and making it seem like Uthgard will be an impossible place to level etc? Well Uthgard wasn't in 1.0 and will not be in 2.0 that I can assure you.

me cute girl. u giv me good itams and help levels free ples.

You can also form your own groups and sometimes get some success.

Excuse me? "Sometimes"? Every time I cannot find a pve group I build my own, either for leveling up a low level char or for boss raiding. When dragon spawn was set to one hour after the kill I used to run 3-4 dragon raids a day (yes I was unemployed so I had more time to spend on the game - big sorry I'm young and naive) and yes, a lot of 'casuals' joined me as well. Why wouldn't you want to do the same? Because you're lazy. You'd rather join someone else's raid than building your own bg, managing the groups and the classes needed, leading the train into the epic zone up to the dragon lair without dying, setting up the roles, calling for the healer assist etc etc etc...

rant about powerlevel

Uthgard will never allow powerleveling, sure they fixed the exp ratios but that doesn't mean there is no limits. And that's been stated over and over again...

I really don't get the powerlevel stuff. Sure, it was quite fun to push a toon from lvl 5 - 50 in 4h in Avalon City (with Atlantis Master Levels & pure PVE gear), but hey, that's nothing for Uthgard.

Sure, a lot of people want to hit lvl 50 ASAP with their preferred chars, to start rockin' in RVR, to gain that small to very small advantage of RR5+ VERY EARLY, to be able to 'farm' others which are still low RR. But even for you it's true: Advantage does not replace Skill.

That's so poor to be honest. :þ

I lvled on Genesis... the exp on genesis compared to the exp on Uthgard is just freaking retarded..

relvinian wrote:[and there are players who log out of the game the 3-4th time that they get killed by greygankers while xping.

Because as we all know, you can only level characters in RvR zones. All other mobs in the game are worth 0 xp.

Okay, okay, I've been a NAY sayer. That's true. But by LORDY, bring back UTHGARD NOW (please) because I've been on live and it's really the suck.

Baman wrote:

relvinian wrote:[and there are players who log out of the game the 3-4th time that they get killed by greygankers while xping.

Because as we all know, you can only level characters in RvR zones. All other mobs in the game are worth 0 xp.

YES! That's right! And that's why we whine and complain and moan and groan and pee and cry. (which is to say, no greyganking is a silly concept of honor. Can't take the heat ladies and gentlemen, stay out of the RvR zones till you're all groan up at 50.)

Alot of comparison between "Veterans" and "elitists" goin on...

My definition of a Veteran is someone who knows the lay of the land. He/she know what mob to kill and what kind of damage they are vulnerable to. They know how to use camp bonus to their advantage, and how to keep it fresh. A veteran is someone who is knowledgeable of all or most of the classes on all 3 realms. A veteran will take the time to at least explain to someone where they can find information. He won't discourage anyone from playing a class that they want to play, or enjoy playing, because he knows that any class, in the hands of an experienced player, can serve as an important tool against the enemy. He also knows right from wrong, and in most cases won't take shenanigans from anyone. Too many other examples to list...

My definition of an Elitist is someone who discourages other players from playing the game the way they want to play it. They almost always exclude other people from anything whatsoever in the game world. They tend to get their panties in a wad if anyone outside their circle joins in for keep takes, relic defense, or anything else related to the community from making themselves better at the game and advancing up the RR ladder. They like to keep things secret, so no one else can participate in Realm activities where RvR is concerned. In the PvE world, they are the ones who run over the small group of players because they feel themselves to be more important. They try to dominate nice camp spots, because they need to level before anyone else, due to the fact that they think the survival of the Frontier depends solely upon their leet gaming skillz. Too many other examples to list...

The perfect counter to the ****** poor attitude, and the dividing of the community is to have very strong Realm Leaders. They don't have to take everyone by their hand and wipe their backside, mind you...they can still do their own thing, but they tend to not exclude people because their gear isn't a certain color, or their gear isn't MP quality. They rally the realm in times when a solid defense is needed. They occasionally run PvE events for everyone to attend. Altho a rarity these days, a strong Realm Leader will often build whats called "Realm Pride".

Blue and the rest of his team are giving us a chance to keep DAoC alive. I for one think that it is the best game to ever grace our planet. Lets not F this up by constant arguing back and forth about menial BS. I know it's a long shot, but we have the opportunity to make this the best gaming community ever.

The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence...it is greener where you water it.
Sorry to go off topic on the grab bag thread, but it seems as if it has already derailed.

Juri wrote:

You can also form your own groups and sometimes get some success.

Excuse me? "Sometimes"? Every time I cannot find a pve group I build my own, either for leveling up a low level char or for boss raiding. When dragon spawn was set to one hour after the kill I used to run 3-4 dragon raids a day (yes I was unemployed so I had more time to spend on the game - big sorry I'm young and naive) and yes, a lot of 'casuals' joined me as well. Why wouldn't you want to do the same? Because you're lazy. You'd rather join someone else's raid than building your own bg, managing the groups and the classes needed, leading the train into the epic zone up to the dragon lair without dying, setting up the roles, calling for the healer assist etc etc etc...

rant about powerlevel

Uthgard will never allow powerleveling, sure they fixed the exp ratios but that doesn't mean there is no limits. And that's been stated over and over again...

Is this proofed? I think i heard the opposite. Hopefully no pl on uth. It just kills the normal xping.

jambalaya wrote:1L9, why not ? but can we /rp off and /xp off to stay on BG ?

Of course not, if you read Trishins arguments you see, that BGs shall only be a short visitation to the road of lvl. 50 rvr, also there is no reasoning for the server setting, because these commands came by later patches.

Juri & Thalien wrote:Uthgard will never allow powerleveling, sure they fixed the exp ratios but that doesn't mean there is no limits. And that's been stated over and over again...

Is this proofed? I think i heard the opposite. Hopefully no pl on uth. It just kills the normal xping.

Blue once told me about a bug with the level/difference/exp border, it was long ago so I don´t know exactly the current situation. But this border has never been part of live, so if this is fixed you can push other chars without limitation. I really don ´t want to see (petpull) - push groups, but afaik it ´s working this time.

About the veteran / Elitist discussion:
In my opinion a veteran player is a player who knows about the game because he/she played the game for years and has a wide wisdom of game mechanics, classes and so on. He/she knows what to do and what the things are about.

An elitist player is mostly part of a professional, experienced acting playerpool (could be solo player too) that is longterm straight focussed at rvr situations with the goal of successful and perfect gameplay. As rvr is the biggest challenge in the game, the word elitist is mainly used in combination with rvr and not PVE. PVE,- especially leveling, is felt as an annoyance for the most elitist players so their wisdom about pve is often quite lower then the knowledge of rvr.
likewise they are rarely seen in random groups later, because most of them prefer to stay in their own environment.

Note: This is only a slight generalization of stereotypes, the gap between different playertypes is often not as big as it seems.

Roenik has hit the nail on the head with his differentiation between Elitist and Veteran.

The thing is that there is an "elitist scare" in some portions of the community. Yes, they do exist, but certainly not to the extent that many believe, especially when the server reopens to a (hopefully) large crowd. Most will be veterans, but probably rusty and pretty much in the same boat as most of us. Even if you do happen to come across a very strong group, you can simply run with multiple groups and zerg them, or go to another zone. The myth of the invincible 1337 group is either propounded by people who consider themselves (rightly or wrongly!) to be part of one or players controlled by their own fear and victim-mentality.

It is, however, a good time to re-evaluate some of our values. X-realming has been rightly frowned upon and I would welcome any technical solution which discourages it. Though I am aware that there will be ways around it, any barrier will make clear that staff and community do not endorse this behaviour. Realm-pride and even realm-hatred are beneficial to the community - greyganking can actually help promote that, so the (minute) amount of RPs for greys is in my opinion correct. Adding should no longer be socially punished, but I expect this will take a while to change (do it anyway and ignore the incoming /sends).

Finally, and probably most controversial, it is time to stop hiding in the BGs, because it unnecessarily splits the RvR community. I love the BGs, too, but they are intended as a nice distraction on the way to 50, not a means unto themselves. If you think this is forcing a gamestyle, to a degree it is. But if you are so afraid of Emain, then you can still reroll endless BG chars. In the long-run, shifting the focus on endgame RvR is the correct decision and once you actually play there, instead of wasting time concocting tearful threads on the forums, you will see that it isn't a fraction as bad as you have portrayed it to be.

Scalado wrote:Even if you do happen to come across a very strong group, you can simply run with multiple groups and zerg them, or go to another zone.

Exactly right. The more people that decide to go to other zones, the better.

I'm hoping maybe there will be enough people to police the cool-kids-teamspeak-x-realmer club that hangs out rezzing and dueling over and over farming rps at amg. That's not rvr. You should have to look for someone to fight, not kill people you are really friends with again and again.

veteran? elitist? what?
to the xp spot!