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I dunno why this topic is so hard debated over and over again, these pots /charges have maybe a big use in solo rvr,- especially for stealthers, and that ´s why most of the ppl complain about it, because they play a ranger and want a bigger advantage from their selfbuffs, or they are too lazy to buff up or don ´t want to farm money for the charges/pots.
The reasons are unimportant and don ´t matter at all, because charges and pots are a big part of 1.65 patch level and will be in anyway (I doubt staff would take them out, because that would be a big custom solution nerf and it ´s not known if the majority of the players would agree). There is no question for custom degrades, but upgrades from later patches maybe. If some of you ppl want to play a simple form of daoc without any individuality of the chars, then please go and play something else like counterstrike or any newer roleplaygame without any challenge, daoc is in this case not the right game for you or Uthgard the wrong shard. Caemma wrote: Well, pretty simple answer: it add a layer to the rvr. Its something that increase the needed efforts to get better results, and to give a purpose to who like to min-max his game experience. You could say the same for RAs, why would we have to use RAs? Why some realms have OP RA (like sos, am, aotg) and others 2 not? Why not remove all RAs and play the game without all those fancy abilities that we "need" to take in order to success vs other groups? I know its pretty drastic, but its a quite similar parallelism. The only thing that my common sense suggest, is that Potions and Charges should always be less stronger than actual average buffs.. but you know Livelike is Livelike, unless GMs decide some other ways (which i doubt). Indeed, I would like to see more discussions about bonus content from later patches (guard tasks, mounts etc. )instead of things that are already clear, because they are just part of the 1.65 setting. A massive roleplaygame should offer a big variety of options and content, 1.65 has already a very small content compared to all the later add ons, fixes, patches, why should this content be further cut down as it is necessary? |
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I'm a little confused about your post. If you don't care about soloing and feel the game shouldn't worry about soloers why are you even concerned about buff charges? If all you want to do is group, then it has no effect on you one way or the other. If you think there's a bunch of uber 8-mans out there running around with no druids/shamans/clerics just using buff charges, then you have been seriously misinformed. That doesn't happen and won't happen ever.
You kind of answered your own question here. Soloers without self buffs are most certainly at a disadvantage. Some people have argued that buff classes are supposed to be the only classes to have buffs. This is an idealized, fantasy version of DaoC that essentially never existed. Buff charges were around long before shrouded isles. Now let's think, why would they introduce buff charges if it would dramatically upset the balance and "gimp" self-buffing characters? The answer: it really doesn't. In fact, I would argue that Mythic put them in the game TO BALANCE things. Now, contrary to what some rr3 hib in DF might have told you, I've done a little bit of solo RvR. My average rp per kill on the herald is 608 and I had around 4k solo kills before they made greys count toward title. You know what the toughest class on hib for me to fight was? Warden. For mids, the toughest was probably thane. And that was when I was fully buffed! Self buffing classes don't exactly become poor little weaklings in a buffed environment. I know Ronia can assure you that rangers were perfectly capable of holding their own. 
As someone said previously, PVE and raiding is a core part of this game. Having those elusive, highly-sought, expensive items makes things exciting and gives us a reason to work together and kill legion, dragon, etc. If you're wanting an "equal" server where pve doesn't matter, then I think an insta 50 server is more along the lines of what you're looking for.  |
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I'm asking a legitimate question here, not trying to start a flame war
What really is the difference between buff bots vs pots then? (Other than the higher stat value which is moot because bots are banned and all pot buffs are assumed equal here) The way I see it you pay for both, whether it's time or money (second account, historically) to achieve the same goal - whether you call it 'balance' or advantage or staying competitive. |
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Baman I have not decided who I will even play yet. And it has NOTHING to do with what class I will play.
I am speaking strictly from a balanced point of view. I will use the ranger as an example since you brought it up... IMHO...and I keep saying this as it is my opinion...lets say an infiltrator attacks a ranger. The ranger has all his self buffs as that is part of his class...yet the infiltrator is using the charge items and pots. To ME this is a touch unfair because the ranger has an ability from his class to self buff and the infi doesn't normally but is using outside sources. To me this takes away from what is special about a ranger. It basically says that sorry ranger but we are gonna give the infi the ability to self buff because its not fair you have self buffing spells. I'm not trying to stir up a huge argument I am just after a simple reason about why we should have pots/charges. I don't know if I will be soloing or grouping. I like playing a nuking class especially elds/runies...and I like melee toons like champs and blademasters a lot so I don't know for sure what realm I will be. I don't generally play straight stealthers but I like playing archers at times. I prefer Scouts with shield and Hunters with the pet. I know people want pots/charges and I have read a few things in favor but really nothing overwhelming that says "We NEED them". I know you say soloers need buff pots but in reality what you are saying...IMHO...is that you want to solo and you want the advantage that pots/charges bring. I LOVE PvE in DAOC and I play it quite a bit...there are a lot of reasons to raid including other gear drops that are nice or respeccing stones if Uth uses them and other things. No one can tell me pots/charge items are the sole reason we raid. There are some decent template items from raids amongst other things also. @Jerrian - You wanna sit there and tell people to play elsewhere already simply because I am asking a question on balance? Uth is already gonna be an uphill climb and I am more then willing to stay with it regardless of pots but plz don't think I don't have the right to ask a simple question. if you can't think of a good reason then just don't answer. I was not rude to anyone nor did I make demands to get rid of...I just asked why people think they are so necessary. |
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 [3:10pm] <myrmidon^> You have to be a c*** to be awesome at daoc
[3:10pm] <myrmidon^> that's what I learnt [3:11pm] <Frosty_> then why does austerim suck
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My point exactly. That's essentially what Mythic was saying when they made the charges in the first place. You think they popped into existence on accident? As a bugged item or something? I'm just imagining the devs at mythic having a conversation: "Whoops, we accidentally put buffs on these items... now all buff classes are totally useless! Oh well. Too hard to change it now. Better just leave it that way forever..." |
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Oh I can guess as to why they were implemented. It just seems counterintuitive to give some classes buffs then turn around and give everyone the ability to buff. So answer me this... Is a Ranger OP with his self buffs in a fight with another archer or stealthier who doesn't have buffs? Is an infi underpowered to the point that they needed pots/charges to compete? I remember rangers being hammered on for awhile as being weaker then scouts as far as DPS and that the scout with a shield bash would whoop him. Does an Infi without buff pots bypass all self buffing classes? |
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That was the point I made in my post. Speaking from personal experience, self buffing classes are some of the hardest things I've gone up against even when I had all buff charges available. And if you go look on the herald, there were more rr10 and 11 rangers than there were infis. |
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Well it is what it is. I played DAoC in beta and for the first couple years it was released. I played Albion and whether I was on my Reaver or my Wiz I never had to really go one on one often. Course my Wiz got slaughtered quickly by any stealthier my reaver rarely lost.
If Pots/Charges are there to fix the OP buffing classes then that's a different argument and one I can see. Its still tough to swallow as I am a big fan of having classes with special abilities be unique and not having everyone else get that same ability. |
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The main goal of DAoC is to improve your character:
You - level - farm - gear up - earn realm ranks to improve your stats. You use buff pots to improve your stats - it's the main principle of the game  Please stop comparing spec self buffs with buff pots - Rangers got +90 d/q where pots are +30. Uthgard till 2003!
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I understand that. Geez when are people gonna finally stop throwing stuff in the game at me when I already know the stat differences. I am not saying pots are as good. I NEVER said that. I SAID...again IMHO...that I think its a tad unfair that you give certain classes self buffs...and then give everyone else buff pots/charges. It takes away from what makes certain classes special. I understand if Baman is saying self buffing classes are WAY OP compared to a non self buffing class. I was saying I never remember it being THAT bad the first few years of live and I never bought buff pots. So YES I will compare them to the point that you STILL get a +30 so in effect the ranger now gets a 60 difference. None of that matters though as I wasn't comparing them I was simply saying IMHO it takes away from all self buffing classes when EVERY class can self buff anyways...even if to a smaller degree. |
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Take RAs out of the game too then, God forbid a higher RR stealthed char beats easily a lower RR one
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Umm I already said I understood about RA's and that they are a bonus for higher RR toons. I am fine with that. Again...I am asking a simple question and people like this just want to get ****** because I was curious about something. |
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Again, I'm not trying to argue here - what is the difference between buff bots and buff pots? (aside from stat differences)
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K then, let's use the same medicine: "buff potions are a bonus for toons who are willing to spend more money and time in the PvE department". Because, you know, this game is built so that you make your character stronger, and that takes time and money. You've been told this over and over in this topic but you seem to ignore it for whatever reason. Also I guess aug str (just to mention one) is an unfair realm ability since it passively & permanently buffs someone's strength. How am I supposed to deal with that? Are you trolling us all? I'm pretty sure you are by now. Yours is not 'curiosity', you're building up a case over a fuss - but hey, it's our fault for still answering you back rather than ignore you and your deliriums. |
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