Seriously? How could i forget that fact.

People will create more Smallman groups instead of running solo through emain.

which is a good thing yes?

unless you mean small man stealth groups...

Kodyjak wrote:Seriously? How could i forget that fact.

People will create more Smallman groups instead of running solo through emain.

You have no clue.

Buff classes have always stronger buffs than potions - have you even looked at the values?
Even the +75 s/c charge is not that strong in comparison with specbuff linies which always have the 25% buffbonus on the delve value.

krayman wrote:No Pots, No Charges equals more time in RvR, as a Casual player I do not need to spend most my time farming just to compete in RvR. Im sure that goes for most Casual Players. Wouldn't you all rather spend 90% of your time in RvR instead of farming 75% of the time.

The problem with this logic is you are not seeing it all the way through. Hypothetically, if you removed all potions and charges from the game in order to push casual players into RvR it still wouldn't happen. Those same casuals who complain about having to devote a couple hundred gold and a night to make an alchemist would be the same ones complaining that running with a non-maxxed template should be viable. The logic of "I shouldn't have to spend time doing PvE in order to do PvP," is a played out logic with no merit. The people that say that would be much better off playing on an insta 50 server where the game is 99% PvP. DAoC was always a mix of PvE and PvP. In order to be really good in PvP (at least from a solo and small man perspective) there will always be a decent amount of PvE between leveling your toon, farming a template, and even the little things like farming needed charges and crafts.

Any player that said having to make potions prevented him from going out to RvR was a player who was going to re-roll twinks and focus on BG's. Why? Because its easier. Just my 2 cents.

@ Holsten- I can see what you are saying, but I genuinely am enjoying the debate. Trishin made a great example that I had not thought about. Alb and Hib both get access to a d/q charge, but Midgard (who has no dmg based on d/q) doesn't get their charge? That could be a huge difference.

RonELuvv wrote:Any player that said having to make potions prevented him from going out to RvR was a player who was going to re-roll twinks and focus on BG's.

Seems to me that the people arguing to get rid of charges/potions fall into one of these categories: a.) people who exclusively do group rvr so it doesn't affect them as much b.) people who never really did much rvr (no toons over rr5 on uthgard) or c.) people who play classes with self buffs.

RonELuvv wrote:The problem with this logic is you are not seeing it all the way through. Hypothetically, if you removed all potions and charges from the game in order to push casual players into RvR it still wouldn't happen. Those same casuals who complain about having to devote a couple hundred gold and a night to make an alchemist would be the same ones complaining that running with a non-maxxed template should be viable. The logic of "I shouldn't have to spend time doing PvE in order to do PvP," is a played out logic with no merit. The people that say that would be much better off playing on an insta 50 server where the game is 99% PvP. DAoC was always a mix of PvE and PvP. In order to be really good in PvP (at least from a solo and small man perspective) there will always be a decent amount of PvE between leveling your toon, farming a template, and even the little things like farming needed charges and crafts.

no no you're still not getting it, let me spell it out... the mindset/logic you are representing here is the same mindset that mythic had when they introduced TOA and the later expansions, "well casuals will complain anyway, if its not about TOA they will still complain about having to get a crafted suit and farm df items, etc", and now you're saying exactly that. Yes they "as a company" made more money from expansions I get that...

The bottom line is where is the "fine line" of too much pve/requirments

If pots/charges are going to happen they should be equal to green level buffs kinda like the CL buffs that were introduced somewhere along the line...nothing more

This whole discussion reminds me of all the QQ's when barrels were removed. You gotta man up...buff classes were designed for a reason.

As someone said in a earlier thread, no buffs/charges is equal footing for everyone..adding buff pots to make it more convienent for you, well than you might as well add an npc that gives you buffs equivelent to the pots, and thats just silly

please do no remove all charges and pots from ingame just because there are issues with S/C being available to some.

I am SO GLAD the staff doesn't listen to people with zero common sense complaining about this and that... SO GLAD.

The real important questions is... will Skill & RA Respec stones be dropping off of Dragon/Named mobs again? XD

DeathPizza wrote:The real important questions is... will Skill & RA Respec stones be dropping off of Dragon/Named mobs again? XD

should still be in


Version 1.58 Release Notes
RESPEC NOTES

In order to give players the chance to respec at high levels, we've put in the ability to find objects in the world that will grant the player a realm ability or career specialization respec.

Because of their extreme power and high worth, these objects are currently found only on the dragons in each realm's mainland. On their death, Golestandt, Gjalpinulva, and Cuuldurach will now drop fifty Luminescent Stones. Half of these will be Full Career Skill respec stones, half Realm Skill respec stones. These stones can be traded or sold to other players as any other object in the game.

------------------------------------

Version 1.61 Release Notes
Item changes in the frontiers

- The four Summoners in the Summoner's Hall dungeon now have a chance to drop a Luminescent Abrogo Stone. These stones can be turned in to the NPC's listed below to receive a Realm Skill Respec. A different type of respec stone is dropped in Shrouded Isles - see below.

Item changes in the epic dungeons

- Monsters in Caer Sidi, Tuscaran Glacier and Galladoria now have a chance at dropping a single line respec stone. Note that non boss monsters have a significantly different drop rate than named boss monsters. These stones can be turned in to the following NPC's:

newguy= wrote:You gotta man up...buff classes were designed for a reason.

Actually, I think you've gotta man up and accept that Charges/Potions were put in the game by Mythic for a reason even before Shrouded Isles. You think they just invented them on accident? And this has nothing to do with groups needing buffs or not because groups are always going to need healers. Try running any rvr group with nothing but buff potions and see how long you last.

It's a huge custom change you're asking for just because it's what YOU want. I think bonedancers and necros are stupid classes that should never have been invented and the game would be much better off without them, but I can "man up" and accept that they're going to be in the game because that's the game. We don't all get what we want just because we want it.

Look, if we can agree on nothing, let us at least agree to stop saying the stupid phrase "man up".

It's been nice coming back here and surprising to say the least. Shocked that I've been in a DAoC forum agreeing and siding with Baman and Svp. The world must be coming to an end.

Say what you want Newguy, but I played this game on live for YEARS and on Uthgard for YEARS. No matter how "easy" you make it for new casual players, it will never be easy enough for them. Anytime they get beat they will find a reason why its unfair. Whether its gear, potions, charges, play style, possible cheating... it makes no difference. There will always be a gap, but as Baman said, potions and charges are live like at this patch setting. Whether you think its fair or not is irrelevant.

This picture is for Austerim.

Baman wrote:

newguy= wrote:You gotta man up...buff classes were designed for a reason.

Actually, I think you've gotta man up and accept that Charges/Potions were put in the game by Mythic for a reason even before Shrouded Isles. You think they just invented them on accident? And this has nothing to do with groups needing buffs or not because groups are always going to need healers. Try running any rvr group with nothing but buff potions and see how long you last.

It's a huge custom change you're asking for just because it's what YOU want. I think bonedancers and necros are stupid classes that should never have been invented and the game would be much better off without them, but I can "man up" and accept that they're going to be in the game because that's the game. We don't all get what we want just because we want it.

of course you can "man up" <-- (gotta keep the saying going now ) on bd's and necros, do you know why? they have absolutely 0 impact on rvr, and as we all know..daoc = rvr/pvp.....mythic implemented buff pots yes... but as someone already said, "they implemented a lot of dumb things, TOA anyone?"

RonELuvv wrote:It's been nice coming back here and surprising to say the least. Shocked that I've been in a DAoC forum agreeing and siding with Baman and Svp. The world must be coming to an end.

Say what you want Newguy, but I played this game on live for YEARS and on Uthgard for YEARS. No matter how "easy" you make it for new casual players, it will never be easy enough for them. Anytime they get beat they will find a reason why its unfair. Whether its gear, potions, charges, play style, possible cheating... it makes no difference. There will always be a gap, but as Baman said, potions and charges are live like at this patch setting. Whether you think its fair or not is irrelevant.

I agree with you..ppl have excuses for everything, but do you see the similarities in thought process/mindset of mythic creating toa/expansions and what you're saying?

I want someone/anyone, right here , right now to tell me what would be unfair about no realms getting any charges and no buffs at all(without a buff class) or maybe green buffs at the most....


ps.. it wouldn't break my heart if they had potions, We've all been dealing with it for well over a decade now, this is just for fun debate and chatter till the server comes up. I just really think buff pots add and encourage to the elitests way of being selfish and having closed groups, and snobby play, which is not very healthy for a community in which we hope will grow and prosper.

pss. can anyone think of any other game where buffs are as powerful and gamechanging as daoc? I cant...and considering the huge impact that buffs have on this game... this is unfortunately a big debate/deal...

psss. I'm not completely a casual gamer myself although I am getting a lot older like most of you..but I do full heartedly agree on the philosophy of making a game too easy will not keep people around and there will be nothing vested in it.. I too have been playing this great game for many many years.