kildich wrote:I am fine if you don't want to use buffbots in pve but why force everyone else to have to group if they don't want to. I like having options myself and sometimes I want to get on for like 5-10 minutes... why do I want to look for a group and then leave right away. I also don't need an excuse, sometimes I want to solo and only certain classes are meant for soloing. Mind you I like those classes but if I want to play something that doesn't solo well I reserve the right to play how I want to play not how someone else wants me to.

Scalado wrote:Although this is all really quite academic, considering the total reset has already been decided, the reasons for the declining population before the wipe are worthy of consideration in order to avoid a repeat in the future. However, I also see a potential danger in these pontifications. People are often frustratingly incapable of escaping their own point of view. Accordingly, everyone tries to assert their own, emotional version of why Uthgard's population diminished (be it the removal/addition of custom features, SI, Old RAs/New RAs, Elitism/Casualness, staff policies, etc.).

I'm not a full-blown deconstructionist - I think we can arrive at an approximation of the truth, but certainly not from arguments obviously laced with personal interest. For example, removal of barrels may be inconvenient, but does it really affect population? Is it even possible to set up a test that could causally link the two? The problem is that the truth can be counter-intuitive, rendering shotgun judgments useless.

For this reason, I am glad of Blue's stubbornness concerning server policy and patch level. There really is little else to go by, because forum posts and even polls are not an accurate representation of the community. Even if they were, certain group interests may be detrimental to the server's overall health. Individuals may argue against their own long-term self-interests (e.g. good RvR activity) for short-term gain (e.g. don't wipe my char). While it was apparent that the population of Uthgard declined, I advise caution when determining the causes.

linwig wrote:As long as rvr groups are not so fussy with what classes they invite I think the server can stay healthy for the more casual players. That means you are going to have to invite my Avalonian Merc guys and I won't take no for an answer.

RonELuvv wrote:

Scalado wrote:Although this is all really quite academic, considering the total reset has already been decided, the reasons for the declining population before the wipe are worthy of consideration in order to avoid a repeat in the future. However, I also see a potential danger in these pontifications. People are often frustratingly incapable of escaping their own point of view. Accordingly, everyone tries to assert their own, emotional version of why Uthgard's population diminished (be it the removal/addition of custom features, SI, Old RAs/New RAs, Elitism/Casualness, staff policies, etc.).

I'm not a full-blown deconstructionist - I think we can arrive at an approximation of the truth, but certainly not from arguments obviously laced with personal interest. For example, removal of barrels may be inconvenient, but does it really affect population? Is it even possible to set up a test that could causally link the two? The problem is that the truth can be counter-intuitive, rendering shotgun judgments useless.

For this reason, I am glad of Blue's stubbornness concerning server policy and patch level. There really is little else to go by, because forum posts and even polls are not an accurate representation of the community. Even if they were, certain group interests may be detrimental to the server's overall health. Individuals may argue against their own long-term self-interests (e.g. good RvR activity) for short-term gain (e.g. don't wipe my char). While it was apparent that the population of Uthgard declined, I advise caution when determining the causes.

Great post. First off, lets get one thing straight. I know i'm not getting my toon back (or at least my RR, which is all I want), and I know I won't be coming back because of this. You bring up a HUGE point that I have been trying to make yet nobody seems to even notice. Which is what is confusing me. Instead of people focusing on the most major of issues (SI, Old RA implementation, class fixes) everyone wants to try and get their way on things like buffbots and potion charges. These are trivial issues that will effect everyone equally. Whatever they decide everyone will have the same game settings.

The GM's said they had to do a complete server wipe because of all of the imbalances in the game for new players. Fine, I can somewhat understand that sentiment. The GM's originally stated they were taking down the server, resetting everything, fixing BD's/Necros, putting in Old RA's, and SI. Once again, great idea. However, now they are saying that SI will not be introduced at the start and they will have to implement CUSTOM solutions for the realms so they all have access to the same charges. So right off the beginning we start with custom solutions meaning players that play pre-SI introduction may have advantages players coming in post-SI will not have.

So my question again, does anyone think this is going to fix the real underlying issues that Uthgard had prior to the reset? I don't. There will be a wealth gap within a year. There will be RR gaps within a year. There will be a declining population once these things happen. Then what? Another reset so we all start over again? This is what bothers me the most. Once again, I understand the removal of Taj and other unique items. I even understand the resetting of money since some people had Tajendi to farm and others did not. Yet the only way these resets actually work is IF the GM's can come out with a finished product, at least as far as content is concerned. There will always be tweaks and bug fixes and things like that, but to implement this server w/out SI is starting you already down the road to failure and towards another eventual reset.

RonELuvv wrote:

Scalado wrote:Although this is all really quite academic, considering the total reset has already been decided, the reasons for the declining population before the wipe are worthy of consideration in order to avoid a repeat in the future. However, I also see a potential danger in these pontifications. People are often frustratingly incapable of escaping their own point of view. Accordingly, everyone tries to assert their own, emotional version of why Uthgard's population diminished (be it the removal/addition of custom features, SI, Old RAs/New RAs, Elitism/Casualness, staff policies, etc.).

I'm not a full-blown deconstructionist - I think we can arrive at an approximation of the truth, but certainly not from arguments obviously laced with personal interest. For example, removal of barrels may be inconvenient, but does it really affect population? Is it even possible to set up a test that could causally link the two? The problem is that the truth can be counter-intuitive, rendering shotgun judgments useless.

For this reason, I am glad of Blue's stubbornness concerning server policy and patch level. There really is little else to go by, because forum posts and even polls are not an accurate representation of the community. Even if they were, certain group interests may be detrimental to the server's overall health. Individuals may argue against their own long-term self-interests (e.g. good RvR activity) for short-term gain (e.g. don't wipe my char). While it was apparent that the population of Uthgard declined, I advise caution when determining the causes.

Great post. First off, lets get one thing straight. I know i'm not getting my toon back (or at least my RR, which is all I want), and I know I won't be coming back because of this. You bring up a HUGE point that I have been trying to make yet nobody seems to even notice. Which is what is confusing me. Instead of people focusing on the most major of issues (SI, Old RA implementation, class fixes) everyone wants to try and get their way on things like buffbots and potion charges. These are trivial issues that will effect everyone equally. Whatever they decide everyone will have the same game settings.

The GM's said they had to do a complete server wipe because of all of the imbalances in the game for new players. Fine, I can somewhat understand that sentiment. The GM's originally stated they were taking down the server, resetting everything, fixing BD's/Necros, putting in Old RA's, and SI. Once again, great idea. However, now they are saying that SI will not be introduced at the start and they will have to implement CUSTOM solutions for the realms so they all have access to the same charges. So right off the beginning we start with custom solutions meaning players that play pre-SI introduction may have advantages players coming in post-SI will not have.

So my question again, does anyone think this is going to fix the real underlying issues that Uthgard had prior to the reset? I don't. There will be a wealth gap within a year. There will be RR gaps within a year. There will be a declining population once these things happen. Then what? Another reset so we all start over again? This is what bothers me the most. Once again, I understand the removal of Taj and other unique items. I even understand the resetting of money since some people had Tajendi to farm and others did not. Yet the only way these resets actually work is IF the GM's can come out with a finished product, at least as far as content is concerned. There will always be tweaks and bug fixes and things like that, but to implement this server w/out SI is starting you already down the road to failure and towards another eventual reset.

Njor wrote:Amazing that all these doomsayers, "I-won't-come-back-because..."-threateners (is that a word?) and general qq'ers fail to accept that Uthgard was the by far most successfull DAoC freeshard for 10 years.
And most probably will be again. Because it will be the only properly working free DAoC server around.

And the reason for Uthgard being so successfull is that Blue and staff only listen to players when it really makes sense for the overall vision of this server....so mostly they can safely ignore player "input" on these forums I guess

cheers

Razzer wrote:You don't help by being cocky and negative!

Not listening is failing?

Listening to who?? Everyone has a different view on the server and how it should work.
The goal is fix and this is a good thing - you know what you get and what you can expect.

Live with it or move on.

Pelleas wrote:First of all a big bow to the community as I am new to this forum!

I have been following the discussions here for several month when I first stumbled across Camelot Unchained (CU) but didn't find it attractive enough to contribute to the campaign (though I am still interested in seeing it live before making my final judgement) and looked for another option to sink some time...

I am one of these much talked-about and infamous casual players and want to share my 2 cents as such regarding the server reset:

I played on live back when the game came out - and it was (and still is) the best game I ever played. And although I never got a high realm rank (I made it to RR4, but to be honest, on Albion/Logres I was one of the higher casual players in RvR then among the approx. 20 players always lfg infront of the RvR keep ) I enjoyed playing it a lot - until TOA (Trials of Atlantis - I am spelling out many acronyms to make it easier for other casual players ) came out. With this expansion (which neither I, my friends, nor many other casual players ever bought) DaoC got ridiculous - fighting a group of cats with glimmering tails to indicate casting was way off the original DaoC feeling. Also, artefacts and abilities (like bodyguard), which gave elite groups further advantage over casual players so that in the end I saw KDL (Kinder des Lichts, the server elite group) wipe a whole zerg of 4+ Albion casual groups in an NF tower, finally made the gap so big that there just was no more fun for casual players as from this point in time you would be run over by elite groups in seconds after leaving the RvR keep and hardly had a chance to meet other pugs (pick up groups) at all.

For me, I am really looking forward to the server reopening and I wouldn't have joined again without the server reset. I guess many other player who enjoyed the classic DaoC feeling (DaoC Classic with the Shrouded Isles (SI) expansion provided the best experience) will also join if the word is spread. So I am sure there will be a big player base the first 6 months. The problem that I see is that this time the gap between casuals and elite players will grow too big even faster than on live back in about 2004 due to the fact that there are so many who already know the game almost by heart. So in the end it will again be a elite grp vs elite grp server only pretty fast. I only see to ways to prevent this from happening too soon (i.e. within a year after server reopening):

The first is up to the server admins: if they limit the amount of XP and RP you can gain per week, power players would be forced to twink, which would also help casuals players to find groups for levelling.
The second is up to the community: of course every elite player has the freedom to decide that theay can help casual players both with levelling and in RvR by joining PUGs every now and then. This would also help forming a true realm feeling and not a feeling of 8vs8vs8vs8vs8... vs the rest.

So, I do apologize that my first post became such a lengthy one...
I guess there is a lot in there that will trigger some of the community members with a lower frustration tolerance to fire their flames (bring it on, I can take it )

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for reading and again a deep bow to the whole community of experienced DaoC veterans and those who want to become ones ...

Pelleas wrote:
The first is up to the server admins: if they limit the amount of XP and RP you can gain per week, power players would be forced to twink, which would also help casuals players to find groups for levelling.
The second is up to the community: of course every elite player has the freedom to decide that theay can help casual players both with levelling and in RvR by joining PUGs every now and then. This would also help forming a true realm feeling and not a feeling of 8vs8vs8vs8vs8... vs the rest.

Njor wrote:Amazing that all these doomsayers, "I-won't-come-back-because..."-threateners (is that a word?) and general qq'ers fail to accept that Uthgard was the by far most successfull DAoC freeshard for 10 years.
And most probably will be again.
Because it will be the only properly working free DAoC server around.