RonELuvv wrote:...

-l- Edgtho -l- wrote:and here is the one question: would uth be down today if genesis never appeared?

My answer would be an emphatic "No." No way in hell. The only reason it was shut down was because with both Genesis and Uthgard being on the Dawn of Light servers it killed the GM's to see themselves getting killed in the numbers department. Go back and look at how I said that the Genesis server was going to have issues and start to lose players. Sure enough, its now even worse off then Uthgard was prior to Genesis.

....

I don't think Genesis opening was the reason for Uthgard to be shut down... Blue and his crew have proven to be in it for the long term, they must have known players would have flocked back to Uthgard soon enough, Uthgard 1.0 was lightyears ahead of Genesis.
The DoL code has many problems and I think it needed Uthgard 1.0 (where they tried to patch/fix many of these issues) to figure out that only a major recoding can get rid of those problems for good.

cheers

You may be right Njor, but I would counter that at no point prior to Genesis crushing us on #'s did the GM's ever even hint at a possible reset of the server. As a matter of fact, before my long sabbatical from these forums I went back and posted tons of posts from the GM's throughout the years spouting how they would never reset the server.

So, what changed in the short time between Genesis release and Uthgard closing? The population. Not only Genesis having a high population, but on the same server portal showing Uthgard (who had always ruled the population #) suddenly down in the 100's while Genesis was in the 800+.

If you were ever wondering, yes population did have something to do with it.

It is much easier to shut down when you are sitting at 200 players than at 1000. By doing it at a low population number your "hurt" less people because they don't care much when they are focused on another server.

I really didn't think anyone was thinking this wasn't part of our reason to shut down at the time we did? Of course it was.

i wish there will be no Shouded Isles zone forever.

Trishin wrote:If you were ever wondering, yes population did have something to do with it.

It is much easier to shut down when you are sitting at 200 players than at 1000. By doing it at a low population number your "hurt" less people because they don't care much when they are focused on another server.

I really didn't think anyone was thinking this wasn't part of our reason to shut down at the time we did? Of course it was.

I ´m still thinking the reset was/is the only solution to bring Uthgard back in a good position. It was almost dead and you can see it at Genesis that it ´s not enough to just fix some things to win players back.

When they are gone, they don ´t return normally and if someone wants to return or join and realizes the population is so low, they are scared away and that scares opther players away because daoc is really in need of a big population.
Well, staff planed to set the server to a pure 1.65 setting as well, so the shutdown combined with a revamp was the best and probably only choice at this time. We ´re all suffering from the revamp, I lost all my legend crafters and several good temped lvl. 50 chars, but it ´s a good deal for a new start, because the first months/years are always the best in daoc.

One problem I mentioned quite often and not many palyers seem to realize is: as older the server gets, as more some of the players are dominating it and scare other ppl out of the rvr zones who can ´t compete with them. RvR is the main part of daoc and when players can ´t enjoy it anymore, they use to leave.

To prevent this situations some changes were made at the live servers to compensate this dying progress, with that hadcore 1.65 setting here, the progress will be just more intense, I guess.
But it ´s no need to debate about that topic yet, let ´s just wait for the beta and then hopefully we are able to start over on Uthgard 2.0. After almost one year without daoc, I ´m really excited to play it again.

Your right the begin was always the best times but i wont be able to invest that much time like in the old days
though i wish i could but think will atleast have 1or2 chars but no crafter or maybe 1.
about those changes after reset just wondering how it looked like on live cause it was after the time i left the live and changed to uthgard thats why i didnt see it.
but your right we have time to talk about it when time comes aslong we dont forget it plz inform me when the topic starts ingame i dont miss it^^ pretty sure i wont look into forum that often anymore when uth is on again =p

IS-Lazaren wrote:Your right the begin was always the best times but i wont be able to invest that much time like in the old days
though i wish i could but think will atleast have 1or2 chars but no crafter or maybe 1.
about those changes after reset just wondering how it looked like on live cause it was after the time i left the live and changed to uthgard thats why i didnt see it.
but your right we have time to talk about it when time comes aslong we dont forget it plz inform me when the topic starts ingame i dont miss it^^ pretty sure i wont look into forum that often anymore when uth is on again =p

For me it will just a matter of planning over 1-2 years, and not 1-2 months where I want to be, what chars I want to play, houses, items, plat, etc. A lot of people might think that their Uth 1.0 lvls and status are unobtainable again, but if you look at a longer timescale....say 5-10 years, it again becomes possible. All we need to make that happen is a) a server that is relatively bug free so it never has to be reset; b) a community that will love, support (i.e. donations) and cherish this game; and c) a group of GMs and leaders who are willing to maintain the server and everything that goes along with running the game, ethically and consistently. I think a) will be covered (fingers crossed) on relaunch, and b) is not a problem IMO. Personally my biggest worry is with c) as it takes a very special individual/group people to maintain a server in a fair and consistent manner that does not experience snowball type issues. So for all those who are out there lamenting all that they lost on Uth 1.0....I hear yah. It sucks. But my outlook will be just to take a long approach...play the nights and weekends I have free, and eventually you'll get back in to it at least substantially.

Thats M2C's. LLU2.0.

Alpha

Uthgard needed a fresh start the server was dying. Uthgard became very difficult for new players to not only make money, but compete in RvR. Further steps in creating a very difficult DAoC experience drove away many new players. To shut down the server when Genesis came made sense as players wouldn't be that upset because they could still play DAoC. It also gave a perspective that DAoC is still capable of having 2k+ players and the staff probably wondered why Uthgard was just becoming worse. I'll tell you why, the bad choices which are now transitioning over to Uthgard 2.0. You know you can still give a small amount of convince without decreasing the difficulty level... I hate to sound like a broken record, but pots are just one example.

I try to understand why Uthgard is like this because honestly when SI came out I clearly remember having plenty of Plats. I had a Necro and frequently did Dartmoor and AC for not only drops, but salvage. At one point I farmed Dartmoor solo on Uthgard but they quickly changed it because I was making to much plat(1p an hour)? Uthgard tries to force grouping as the main source of income, but people should have options. I hope they can add a few good spots in each realm where new players can farm and still make a decent template if they choose to. The hole point of why DAoC was so great (apart from the RvR) is because we where given choices, which have slowly been taken away by the staff. I remember the Hulk spot in DF was always filled with groups having fun and making some money at the same time, creating even more RvR incentives. Then one day it was nerfed so hard that it just died(Saw this a lot on Uthgard), Whether or not they knew it would cause the spot to become totally useless for groups to farm was just a clear sign that the staff where oblivious to negative changes which really weren't hurting anyone in the first place. You might as well have removed Hulks because that was the outcome. It's like they had this weird Phobia against Money.....

I understand the point of having a classic server, but whats the point if the outcome is the same as Uthgard 1.0. Can we expect to have a High population 2 or 3 years from now? Do you acknowledge the mistakes which slowly killed uthgard and made it so difficult for new players or are you oblivious to them? The fact that magically 2k players join Genesis is not a clear sign that your server was no so great? How will you make Uthgard 2.0 a server that will support a growing population?

To be fair the Uthgard player database was from June 2005 and even then one could restore old characters so the original might be from 2004. For a fresh start this is just the perfect moment. In my opinion a Realm Rank reset would be sufficient to make things even but a start from level 1 is easier for newcomers, especially for level groups. One reason SI was removed back in the days, beside the fact that loot tables were not livelike, was that there were too less people for classic and SI areas so it was decided to just open classic.

i need to say this,

uthgard didnt die slowly, it just started a (long needed) change as there was the chance for it.

from the day i started playing here with kestral (and even 3 years earlier my first visit here)
the population of uthgard always increased. i can still remember (like most) the old server which uthgard used at agramon times... this one was outdated because of the increased population.
so when we started here on uthgard were max 300 players on peak/primetime, but the main issue we could find in the rvr areas.

i dont say that agramon had more inc, or more players in the zone, but it had the population concentrated on 1 map which now runs on 12 rvr and 4 dungeon maps. the population spreaded out and we all had the feeling that there is absolutly no action anymore, which caused some rvr active players to stop play or do something else.

this was the beginning of the rvr situation the most people still know from uth1, set or guildgroups roaming with high rr through the rvr, even on low population times, while less and less casuals find their way out to combat.

i, for myself, have learned from this progress and will try to organize ´´playermade events´´ to prevent as much of this rvr player loss as i can, on the long term, because we all know that the known rvr guilds/players will benefit from their skills in this game while the casuals have still to fight their time budget.
so now everyone MUST understand that if we lose the casual players, we lose more than just some noob adders, we lose the greatest part of our community (which is a minor part of rvr - unless events are out) in rvr.
and here the snowball principe starts, if the ´´worse´´ players vanish, the solo/smallmen got less inc. this means some of them stop or join larger groups because their part of rvr just died. sadly this wont stop there, it goes on and on until nothing is left in rvr exept FG´s which search for inc which always starts to run when your group stops.

to encourage players to rvr is what we need to keep the community alive
to encourage the community to work as unity is what we need to reanimate the old feeling
i really hope that more players will understand that not the gms, but we, the players, have the responsibility for rvr activities. if we want have much inc out there, we need to help those who wouldnt join rvr on their own.

for all those casuals (i know not many reading here atm) i just have 1 thing to say:
play just 1 charackter, so that your small timeframe for playing is concentrated on 1 charackter (like holsten did perfectly)
this charackter should be a) a char you can honestly handle, or b) a char that is highly recommended in every situation (supps/full+offtanks/CC-classes)

bleh

-l- Edgtho -l- wrote:i need to say this,

uthgard didnt die slowly, it just started a (long needed) change as there was the chance for it.

from the day i started playing here with kestral (and even 3 years earlier my first visit here)
the population of uthgard always increased. i can still remember (like most) the old server which uthgard used at agramon times... this one was outdated because of the increased population.
so when we started here on uthgard were max 300 players on peak/primetime, but the main issue we could find in the rvr areas.

i dont say that agramon had more inc, or more players in the zone, but it had the population concentrated on 1 map which now runs on 12 rvr and 4 dungeon maps. the population spreaded out and we all had the feeling that there is absolutly no action anymore, which caused some rvr active players to stop play or do something else.

this was the beginning of the rvr situation the most people still know from uth1, set or guildgroups roaming with high rr through the rvr, even on low population times, while less and less casuals find their way out to combat.

i, for myself, have learned from this progress and will try to organize ´´playermade events´´ to prevent as much of this rvr player loss as i can, on the long term, because we all know that the known rvr guilds/players will benefit from their skills in this game while the casuals have still to fight their time budget.
so now everyone MUST understand that if we lose the casual players, we lose more than just some noob adders, we lose the greatest part of our community (which is a minor part of rvr - unless events are out) in rvr.
and here the snowball principe starts, if the ´´worse´´ players vanish, the solo/smallmen got less inc. this means some of them stop or join larger groups because their part of rvr just died. sadly this wont stop there, it goes on and on until nothing is left in rvr exept FG´s which search for inc which always starts to run when your group stops.

to encourage players to rvr is what we need to keep the community alive
to encourage the community to work as unity is what we need to reanimate the old feeling
i really hope that more players will understand that not the gms, but we, the players, have the responsibility for rvr activities. if we want have much inc out there, we need to help those who wouldnt join rvr on their own.

for all those casuals (i know not many reading here atm) i just have 1 thing to say:
play just 1 charackter, so that your small timeframe for playing is concentrated on 1 charackter (like holsten did perfectly)
this charackter should be a) a char you can honestly handle, or b) a char that is highly recommended in every situation (supps/full+offtanks/CC-classes)

bleh

Uthgard did have a slow decline which was not the fault of the players. Less and less changes to improve the casual experience and more to further increase the gap between new and Old players. I'm not a casual nor am I a someone who enjoys building zergs to "as you call it Promote RvR". I will say uthgard did many great things, stable server, Monsters, Working Ra's, Excellent Casting mechanic's, and melee balance between the realms. The server was put in great hands and was built with passion but the influence which drove the Staff to start support Elite/vet players really started a slow decline. The server needs proper management and it's a shame that when it comes to actually experiencing and enjoying the game the staff are clueless as to what is right or wrong, they simply say it's classic.....

I will enjoy Uthgard 2.0 no matter how hard you make it, but that wont be the same for everyone and I want everyone to play. The server Thrives off the Casual players not the elite. I believe some will stay on Genesis for the simple fact of Draughts. It's just a convenience which has no real negative effects to RvR or Pve, yet the only negative thing about it is the fact that it's not Classic. Well then maybe we should remove battlegroups too? But OFC not, they improve the RvR and PvE raid experience.

So the question is do I need changes like charged pots to enjoy DAoC, no! Will it increase the fun factor, yes! Will it allow me to RvR more, yes! When someone from the staff tells me that buff pots replace buff classes, that's when you know these people don't actually play DAoC. Even on live with buffbots everyone ran Buffing classes because by design they are a necessity. Uthgard needs someone who know what changes improve the experience without taking away the classic feel.

-l- Edgtho -l- wrote:i need to say this,

uthgard didnt die slowly, it just started a (long needed) change as there was the chance for it.

i really hope that more players will understand that not the gms, but we, the players, have the responsibility for rvr activities. if we want have much inc out there, we need to help those who wouldnt join rvr on their own.

I agree to your posts generally but at these 2 things I don ´t share your opinion at all.

First, Uthgard died slowly caused of some reasons:

- Caused by bad politics & conversation of the staff the players lost faith in them, changes were made without listen to the players with the take it or leave it concept.
- A hard downpatching progress that made the game feel a bit like getting worse
- advantaged age of the server that made some players inferior to some elitist players and really hard for new players, and casual players with less time to play to compete.
- Release of other games
- Genesis release was just the tombstone as a bad ending, they got 2-3k players at the start and many of them were players that got rid of Uthgard

There were probably some more reasons but that ´s the core of doom that made the server bleed out in the last 1-2 years before the shutdown and the end was clear at least one year before the shutdown as the dying progress increased by quick fading population. Before that we had a stable population in the last years.

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Second, of course the staff hast the main responsibility for rvr activities and population because they offer their great service to the players and the players as a customer has to decide if he/she wants to use it or not, when they use it, they play it the way the server offers. It ´s ok to appeal to humanity, but in fact ppl play for themselfes mainly and can ´t be blamed when others don ´t come along, that ´s just life. The human race is selfish and greedy, even if there are some exceptions in a good way and ofc the community is responsible too, for making this server succeed.

I know it ´s kinda nasty to always play the Genesis comparison card, because you don ´t hit someone laying on the ground / nor talk about the deads, but they had the playernumbers and much activity by players and it wasn ´t enough to aid this server because of the bad shape it had.
I ´m serious, Uthgard will offer of course a much better platform then Genesis will ever be to the players but their "you feel like starving" game setting will probbaly cause some problems later.
Therefore I always yelled for some bravery at custom solutions. As Seksy said, there is no pain when bringing some custom setting to provide a better gameplay, the classic feeling stays with that whole concept anyway.

Conclusion: If you would ask me, what is the most necessary custom solution to keep this server working, I would recommend to bring "rvr missions" , because they lure all kind of players to the frontiers and keep the action alive. If you don t bring them, you force many players to pve or roll a stealther. Stealthers have always been a bad trap in that game, because they prevent or better said,- make it harder for other players to fill up their groups in rvr´/pve and make the players play solo /ungrouped in a group prefered game. Please consider this important argument when you bring back the server.

u are right megrim, but i still think that the players have the responsibility for this rvr thing.
sure gms made mistakes like all say everytime, but we all play on a CLASSIC server and after my years on fcking sh!tload server salisbury (eu classic) i never want such a crap again.

classic is classic.
classic is unfriendly.
classic is like to play dark souls2.

and thats what it should be.

i rly dont mind those potionchanges the gms did, but one thing i hate at it.
-> the pot values are wrong (timers) and i am absolutely sure about this because i can remember salisbury very well (before pot - changes) and i remember having 1 minute haste buff and 1 minute recast timer on it.
i thought this day, i discovered it, that those sh!t is absolutely useless and sold all my pots from this day to a sb named loressina.

but here we have 10 minute timers on all pots, exept invorgation pots. (those are correct with 30 seconds)
i searched many sources for a proof of this but sadly i have found none, even not in the old videos from salisbury, since allll

keyboard shutdown QQ

If pots were changed from ~1 minute timers to 10 minute timers it should be in a patch note? That seems like a big change you would put in a patch note.