Brenz wrote:Gaps in realm ranks and elitism have already killed RvR on other servers before. To me it seems to be close here too : when you have more people in Thid than in Frontier you can consider that something is not going the good way.

Skill level and experience level (RR in this case) differences exist in ALL games. I agree with you that the high RR's sometimes need to get off their high horses and remember what its like to be low RR again, but the blame can go both ways. The low RR's need to realize that it will take time to have success and remember those high RR toons put in their time to get those advantages. At the same time the high RR's need to remember what it was like coming up at low RR and not flame a group every time they outnumber you.

So to sum it up, I agree that "elitism" is a factor that can hurt RvR participation, but RR gap certainly should not factor in to the problem since that player(s) has put in a lot of time and energy for that RR. Also, remember that on the other end of "elitism" is the low RR version of "entitlement". That is when the low RR toon comes fresh out of thid and claims another class is op because his 4L2 toon got beat by a 9L+ toon. Ummm, you are supposed to lose that fight. I've seen both sides of this coin ALOT on this server.

I didn't ask them to put aside. I'm just inviting other low RR groups to join us to have good fights.

I don't think there is much fun in a 8v8 with a rr3-4 group versus a rr9-10 group, neither for one group nor the other one.

Now if those high RR groups want to join with other low RR Toons, they are most welcome.


For the fight against high RR groups : I have no problem fighting and dying against such groups ... but doing this all the evening will only lead us to a 0 rps evening ... when all we need are actually realm points.

Brenz wrote:We are new to Mid and roaming in a 8 men group (actually not all 50, most still with epic armor and mainly rr3).

We would be glad to let those high rr groups fight themselves and find more interesting fights againsts some others (purple cloaks alb group , hibs dyed in rose ...).

The purple cloak group is NoStressFR.

We fought you a couple of times yesterday and tbh it's fun the first times (fighting a low rr3 groups in epic) but then it just become the "same". Atleast you found a few more people and ran a 16 slot which i think is more fun for both
I think it's fair that a group like yours team up with some friends and hopefully have some fun running bigger groups

Atleast it all brings action

Well last night was amazing.. ran for 2 hours, got 3 fair fights, everything else got added by DG.. lol

lol even we got 3 fair fights without any adds nearby...

holsten-knight wrote:lol even we got 3 fair fights without any adds nearby...

.... lol okay? you added our fights everytime.. seriously its getting old...

Oswaldo wrote:

holsten-knight wrote:lol even we got 3 fair fights without any adds nearby...

.... lol okay? you added our fights everytime.. seriously its getting old...

Oswaldo wrote:

holsten-knight wrote:lol even we got 3 fair fights without any adds nearby...

.... lol okay? you added our fights everytime.. seriously its getting old...

I just said even we had 3 total fair 8vs8 (2 won 1 loss) with no other grp nearby, without even looking for fair fights. And several mid groups were looking for us all the time.

Why you do not roam OG or hadrians with the other grps that only want fair fights instead of daoc?

I can not promise we might not show up there, but only if there is no action at all in emain.

Oswaldo wrote:Well last night was amazing.. ran for 2 hours, got 3 fair fights, everything else got added by DG.. lol

OH MY GOD! i was not in group yesterday, otherwise i would have stopped this behaviour!

holsten-knight wrote:

Shafi wrote:And like I said many times before, I am pretty sure, that your playstyle does harm random rvr a lot. I am not argueing that there are mid pugs who welcome adds, but overall it probably does more harm than good to random rvr. Consider hib and alb pugs who already struggle in rvr and when they actually have a good looking fight chances are, you will just brush over it with you rr11 gank squad.
Think about it this way. If Req and MB in Hib and TI and NW in Albion played red is dead, I am pretty sure that the number of mid pugs would drop rather quickly.

If TI or req would play like we do it would get a lot more zergy in emain, as they are a far bigger threat than our grp atm... but a lot of pug players like to zerg, so i wouldn't see this as bad for pugs.

Actually the truth is, whenever we get so annoyed by your or other 16 slots that we run 16 slot with MB just to get rid of you guys, you are usually gone after 2 wipes. Which just proves the point I was trying to make.

To be clear, I don't really care what you guys do, if you add or run 16 slot or whatever. I just think it is blunt hypocrisy how you always act like it is a playstyle beneficiary to the random players, whilst the nicefighting mentally only harms those.

it may look like this for sure... but the truth is: it takes a while 'till you are annoyed enough and formed a 16-slot. Then we wipe 2 times and it is around 22 pm. Which is the time we log off anyway most of the time. Which would be the same if we zerged you another 2 times.

For the pug grps nothing changed, except they could zerg you a few times in the beginning and maybe kill 1 or 2 in the other fights. So infinite more ar pee than they would get in "fair" 8v8 fights against you the whole evening long.

Brenz wrote:I didn't ask them to put aside. I'm just inviting other low RR groups to join us to have good fights.

I don't think there is much fun in a 8v8 with a rr3-4 group versus a rr9-10 group, neither for one group nor the other one.

Now if those high RR groups want to join with other low RR Toons, they are most welcome.


For the fight against high RR groups : I have no problem fighting and dying against such groups ... but doing this all the evening will only lead us to a 0 rps evening ... when all we need are actually realm points.

Just to be clear, I'm all about a 16 slot of low RR pugs vs a high RR set 8 man. I prefer tough fights and I'm assuming most groups also do as well. Sure, easy rp's is fun for a bit, but after awhile you want one of those fights that gets your heart racing a lil bit. If you are in an 8 man and you make a couple runs and get destroyed then by all means grab a few more and keep going back out to get some rp's. I was just saying that for every low RR saying that its high RR toons and elitism that is ruining RvR they should realise that they are as much the problem as well. Its both ends of the spectrum not just 1.

We have been running in RvR with a 8 men group for almost 3 weeks now.

We only ran with 2 groups (14 to be true) on sunday and monday because we have a second group of guilmates rising to level 50 this week.

As a result :
- we have found ourselves loosing efficiency compared to a 8 men group
- we were looking for the high rr groups and we finally caught NoStressFR and were sorry for that
- we were more disappointed losing with 14 players than with 8 players against the high RR

To me running with 16 isn't as good a solution as it may seem.

Brenz wrote:- we were more disappointed losing with 14 players than with 8 players against the high RR

This would certainly be a mood killer. When you bring out twice as many and still wipe then its hard to convince people to go back out.

there is only one viable solution... next time bring 2.5 times as much... or 2 times as much at first, if you want to keep it a fair fight. 14 is either 2 uncomplete grp (which sucks, often more ineffective than 1 grp in good setup) or one fg and a smallmen, and i suppose both still not in best setup. There is still no shame in losing to a high rr guildgrp.