Do I understand the frustrations of people that think that mounts give an unfair advantage? Sure I do. However, what upsets me more is that you can paint this pretty picture all of you want, but once again, no matter what they do it will be a QQ fest. I see on these posts almost every other day some random post about how the time it takes to get back into action is a major problem on this server. If the GM's would just do something to get people back to the action sooner all of our problems would go away. Now those very same people are on here asking to remove an item that does get people from point A to point B faster.

The fact is that taking a person off a mount is NOT difficult. Second, the only mounts that are faster than SLOW speed classes cost 15-30p a piece, not exactly a price that most people can afford. I stressed slow speed because lets not act like bards, minstrils, and skalds are worried about a mounted player catching them. Thirdly, you have to wait 30 seconds out of combat before remounting. If you have any sort of speed at all and you manage to take a guy off his mount (breath on him) then you should have ZERO problem getting away. Maybe, and I stress MAYBE, I could see making it so even resisted spells etc will dismount you, but that would be as far as I would go with it.

Sorry, this is just another thread for people to QQ about. PERIOD. I've had a mount on my ranger and hunter for a VERY long time, around 2 years, and in all of that time I can think of TWO times that I was able to call my mount out and use it to help me in combat. One time it worked and the other time it did not. I wouldn't exactly call that game changing. Hey, how about we all complain about how the GM's don't do enough work on the server, then make a post about some piddly lil thing that has been around forever so we can complain some more.

Certain players want the change because it personally effects them. I wish those players would just make their own server. Make this change but dont make this other change. Oh, fix this because 1 in every 200 fights it might cost me a fight and I cant ever lose. Yet if another player asks for a change that is based on the patch settings then he is a "numb purging noob", right Nayeh?

undefined wrote:If you guys are going to take out the feature (of being able to use horse in RvR zones) in the future, please offer a refund to people who have the horses (Kind of like how Mythic offered full respec, when they did changes to classes). Maybe like a NPC where you can drop/trade the horse to and get an appropriate refund for the type of mount that you have.
I doubt anyone would have spent 15 plat and wasted time doing that horrible quest for the horse if all you could do with it was run around in PvE zones.

I spent 15p for a horse knowing it will be wasted money at some point (at least on a live like server).
Having a speed exploit for 15p for quite some time should be enough of a reward.
A reaver + cleric duo winning the 2vs2 event due to mounts is ridicolous.
On live 1.69 they would have been free RP's

It's not about speed classes only.
The whole RvR is effected by those exploit tools, solo > small man > fg.

I really wonder why stealthers and other people jump the "omg stop qq" train here, cause they have NO clue what they are talking about...

example, that is fixed now: before the fix it was the following way: starting to cast nearsight dismounted the caster...receiving NS did NOT dismount...odd, hm? with the fixed behaviour both will be dismounted when the cast is finished...which is fine..

with the old, buggy, dismount-stuff it was a mess to fight a tank-like class as a caster (charge tanks taken out, they are invincible vs non-highrr-casters anyway)...

the server is pretty caster-unfriendly already and with mounts being out it is even worse..and no, i dont play rm, sorc or ench, which got speed on their own...they are even more at a disadvantage, but thats not the point...and dont tell me its not a solo server and solo doesn't matter...if that's the case mounts can be taken out immediately, cause usually every grp has at least one speed3 class (mid/hib speed5 usually)...

I don't understand it...blue always says things that make the game more convenient and are not 1.69 livelike should be taken out, yet he's so hesitant to take horses out....i agree, that the change proposed in this thread is rather nice....it removes horses from rvr and thus eliminates the advantage of non-speed classes vs ranged or other speed classes...

i guess most of the qq in this thread is still about the old way of dismounting, which was a mess...every offensive action like STARTING a dd-cast did dismount you...even if you aborted the cast or the target was oorange at the end of it...now it's fine and you can dismount ppl with instant debuffs etc., but before it was outright devastating for any solo caster...

does using a dd charge dismount you now? Idk and i am at work so can't test it. All i know is that using DD charges still does not break your SoS.
Else nothing changed. You could still rupt a caster with dd charge and be at him before he can hit a single cast, with a melee class without speed or charge.

I think the solution is simple. If any enemy hits you with ANYTHING you dismount.

Then its a 1 minute timer before you can summon your horse again.

If you have caster/minst speed and you opponent doesn't and you can't get away in 60 seconds then the reason you are dying in Emain has nothing to do with horses.

Jezzmin wrote:I really wonder why stealthers and other people jump the "omg stop qq" train here, cause they have NO clue what they are talking about....

I will tell you why this stealther jumped in here. I'm tired of hearing from certain players that like to pick and choose what needs to be changed based only on what they play and how they play. I use a mount, and I have and do actively play RvR on a regular basis. The mounts are simply not a game breaking issue. Yes, they may possibly give a slight advantage on a rare occasion. My point is that you have a small population asking for removal of horses while at the same times a HUGE portion complains about the lack of time between incomings. Once again showing that no matter what the hell the GM's do around here somebody wants to complain about how unfair something is.

A ranged dd charge, a quick cast spell, and any of a number of other things removes a player from his mount and now that player has to wait 30 seconds out of combat before recalling the mount, which also takes time to do. That is not a tough thing to manage to get around. They are pretty much completely useless in group fights, and for 95% of the times they are being used only to get from point A to point B a tad bit faster. I will admit that if they made it so pretty much any sort of attack or debuff or whatever dismounted you that would not bother me, but dont sit on one thread talking about the length of time between fights being a deterrent and then ask on another thread to get rid of a tool that helps combat this.

svperstar wrote:I think the solution is simple. If any enemy hits you with ANYTHING you dismount.

Yes the solution is pretty simple. Just forbid them in RvR Areas. Anyway u didnt get the influence of them yet. Pls reread Nayes
Why do a ****** work around on a classic server, if there is an easy solution for our patch limit.
There is no option keeping them IG w/o giving no speed classes a huge advantage of having speed. And in daoc speed is a big impact, it s no minor thing u try to make it look like.
It is not a slight advantage and the occasion is not one a life time. It is abused day by day. Just go AMG. Why do you think all none speed classes are mounted? Since they want to go somewhere else

pweet wrote:

svperstar wrote:I think the solution is simple. If any enemy hits you with ANYTHING you dismount.

Yes the solution is pretty simple. Just forbid them in RvR Areas. Anyway u didnt get the influence of them yet. Pls reread Nayes
Why do a [I am a little bunny and like flowers] work around on a classic server, if there is an easy solution for our patch limit.
There is no option keeping them IG w/o giving no speed classes a huge advantage of having speed. And in daoc speed is a big impact, it s no minor thing u try to make it look like.
It is not a slight advantage and the occasion is not one a life time. It is abused day by day. Just go AMG. Why do you think all none speed classes are mounted? Since they want to go somewhere else

Are you kidding me pweet? You want to know why most of them are mounted? Because that way while sitting at AMG they can look cool. Honestly that is what it is 90% of the time, and the other 10% is so if they decide to run to MMG or Crim they have the mount already called and able to take off and get from point A to point B faster. What are they going to run from. Almost every class has a ranged attack of some sort and every player has access to ranged dd's and dots. So as a person runs up they can knock you off your mount and now what? They cant recall the mount right away and you can close in. People sit on their mounts to show off at AMG.

the main problem starts when 2 or more player that should have no speed use horses to chase.
You can't dismount all of them all the time without them getting closer to you, you always break your own speed (so no chance to escape, which would be easy without horses) and have to cast something at them. This slows you down, even if it's an instant cast. So they eventually get you.
Not even a recast timer of 1 minute would be long enough to prevent this, maybe 2 or 3 minutes would be.

How dare you Holsten, i think it is just for the look.
Didnt know that looking cool is a valid argument on a classic server.

You think I'm joking? Intimid would sit on his mount at AMG alot. Why? Because he had the barding and wanted to show it off. It was nothing tactical about it. I've seen most people do this, especially on the RR10 mounts. I never see small mans all sitting around on mounts. Its almost always solo's showing off their mount or spamming /horse commands while bored. Maybe it is an epidemic on the hours I'm not on, but I'm sorry on the hours that I am on this is not a problem.

To respond to Holsten, if there is 2 people with the current settings and neither has speed and you are a speed class than it should not be a problem to get away. You run away and when one starts to call a mount you turn and use a ranged charge on him. Now he cant remount for 30 sec. You hit the other one with a quick cast. Now he cant mount for 30 sec. So you have 30 seconds PLUS however long it takes them to call the mount after this 30 seconds to get away.

If its 3 of them then you will need an AoE effect on one of your casts. If its 4 of them then you were probably screwed anyways since you would have 4 people casting/shooting/using ranged charges on you to prevent you from getting speed and eventually one would probably catch up to you unless you had very high long wind. Maybe ranged dd's should also be removed since only certain classes were meant to have insta ranged dmg.

I'm all for what Svpstar and even Nayeh mentioned, making it easier to dismount a player and I'm even ok with prolonging the the call mount function after combat, but removal of them is right up there with many of the changes that makes it harder and not easier to get to fights faster, hastner comes to mind. I agree that a player with a mount should not be able to chase down a slow speed class with his mount, but to say removal is the only answer is just wrong.

ok just tested using a dd charge, this dismounts you now. This is good, but the recast time for a horse is just 20 sec after beeing in combat, definitely too short.

The best example i saw was in the 2vs2 event: aug healer running from cleric+reaver. The aug healer has only combat speed debuff as instant every 5 (?) sec and the cleric+reaver got him faster than i would have thought.
Both mounting the aug healer demounted the reaver as he was the first in range, the aug tried to mezz the cleric but got rupted by the reaver, the cleric got close enough to stun him and voilà a chase of less then 20 sec. And they would have never reached him without a horse, as he would not even have to turn around to hastle with demounting them.

For sure he could have tried to mezz the reaver and hope he has no purge up etc... but this gets into uneccesary paper daoc again.

RonELuvv wrote:Maybe ranged dd's should also be removed since only certain classes were meant to have insta ranged dmg.

and buffs too

Other scenarios I forgot to mention:
- CC-ing a player out of a fight, leaving this player far behind as your group is pushing and the other is kiting or vice-versa. Then that very player summons his mount to catch back up. This right here, was my first experience of a mount disrupting my potential on Uthgard. During my earliest days of playing here, I attempted to solo on my Shaman. Encountered some Albion duo, rooted one, attempted to dot n’ kite the other out. What happened? The rooted one managed to get back into the fight a lot quicker than he should ever have.
- Support + Any other Group composition without Speed: (or even with speed but the Support may run outside of the speed’s radius still mounted and at an advantage) fighting enemies that don’t have speed or lessor numbers. Just imagine trying to chase down the mounted support positioned just outa range on a horse, being unable to catch it (the support) while the rest of the enemies are slaughtering you and your group?


How do mounts influence RvR?
Players must adjust to dismount those that are mounted.


Don't you think players it infuriates players when they are forced to blow abilities, items, or poorly position their selves just to drop foes off their mounts? These abilities are usually reserved for other situations. Also mind, these abilities have limitations (RuTs). Knocking a player off a horse may sound simple – but it is not. Especially when you’re up against a larger number of foes in addition to these limitations.

A 60-second reuse? 30-second reuse? There are so many variables in DAoC, you cannot predict the longevity of a fight to place a fair timer on these. A mezz or root spell may last about 60-seconds, depending on the players / resists etc. They are long out of combat and are able to summon a mount immediately when that expires. To say that particular player is bad because the fight didn't end within that minute is not a fair accusation when taking into account they could be fighting players that have numbers greater than their own. Or play a class / spec that does not exactly have damage potential. Or perhaps they just want to escape, but are unable to with 1 being able to keep them in combat while the other is slowly advancing back into the fight on their mount.

The AMG-scene has always been a flaunt-festival. Usually Stealthers and/or Tanks are all dueling each other, the typical classes that do not really require mounts as they usually know what they are up against (usually another melee or stealthier). How often do you see ranged-reliant players around AMG? Still, there are the occasional players that show up and need players on their same or slower speed in order to thrive.

Spot a group of 2+ enemies heading towards your direction and you’d like to kite and attempt to single each one out to make the fight more manageable for you? Welp, that won’t work if the enemies you are fighting mount up. Some cases call for stringing out opponents, even if you don’t have ranged-capabilities.

About “slowing action”, there are much better routes to improve action that does not damage the play style of other classes. A Keep-Teleportation system comes to mind.

@ Holsten- I checked on my lunch break and you are correct on the 20 second timer. I was thinking it was 30 seconds but I was wrong.

@ Nayeh- I understand the frustrations and I even agreed that there is occasional situations that a mount would provide an advantage. You don't think by making it so any action towards or against a mounted player dismounting and a 60 sec remount timer would not eliminate 99% of the problems? I'm sorry, but I think that would solve most if not all of the problems. The only example I seen that wouldnt be solved with this would be a support on a mount kiting and a class using it to get back into combat sooner. On the first example IF they changed the rule then a simple amnesia spell would drop him from mount and he would have to wait a minute + the mount calling time to get back on his mount. In the 2nd example if the other player is out of combat in a group and it takes him 1 minute to be able to call his mount out then I would hope by that point you would have gained the upper hand.

Sure, you could go the pweet route and say remove them from all RvR zones to eliminate the problem as well, but then it kind of defeats the purpose of having them in the first place. I certainly didnt spend 45p (15 on mid and 30 on hib) to have a mount to allow me to move from farm spot to farm spot a bit faster.

Also, I understand that you shouldn't HAVE to use charges/abilities/ra's to dismount horses but most of your previous examples were about a toon trying to get away, not about a toon trying to fight. Yes, some of your examples were valid, but once again most of those examples are 1 in every 30-50 fights at best. I'm not saying that there shouldnt be some modifications to the current mounting rules, but to eliminate them seems to me to be complete overkill.

I agree that the keep teleport system will work to circumvent the problem of getting players back into action sooner, but that has already been stated that would happen by Blue. That might be next week or it might be 3 years from now. Until that gets implemented mounts are the only way to get players back into action sooner.