ForumFairplay for all !!!
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+1  He can start by making a list of abilities available by class. Of course, we need at least basic delve : duration, effect value, cooldown (for the famous style RA that give diversity between realm... LOL), type of spell, etc. When this will be done, then we could investiguate on interruptible or not, instant or not, can be cast while mezzed, and more precise question like if Grapple duration is reduced by resist or not, if BAoD was still giving 1st tiers resist bonus at 1.69 (for a 100% resist = immune magic on Hib), if Group purge was still not castable while mezzed/stun in 1.69, if toughness give a 3% flat or cumulative bonus on all HP or base only HP, etc., etc.  Of course, Blue could start to add effect according to the foreknowledge of old ras addicts, but it would be surprising that he could even think about starting to do such a mess And of course, the result would be like the nice dream of "realm balance" and improved gameplay that few players describes here. 
When i see which bug you are bumping, i really doubt that you are aware of what is good or not for RvR. Maybe i'm not too, but i share the opinion of a majority when i think that improvement of heals were a good point, while you are trying to make them removed. RIP : Ectoplasme
My own version of Uthgard Character Builder |
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We can go as much into detail as you want, there will be something not tested everytime
Last edited by Celteen on May 18, 2013 09:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Its the biggest change from 1.80 to 1.69 aside from old ra. Should we just ignore the #1 change? That should have been either changed with release of 1.69 or added to custom list since its such a massive change. I bump it for this reason. If the biggest changes from 1.80 to 1.69 are being ignored, why even change patch? To be honest I find the entire thing baffling. all focus gems were removed, and /autoloot is being trackered but /makeleader almost got someone banned for trolling...I just don't see the difference, all of those were ease of use changes, 2 are OK, one is a troll attempt? Okidoke...and all the while, the biggest substantive changes are just ignored. I suppose defense penetration should remain totally broken since we don't have bodyguard too right? |
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did i already stated that archer classes would do everything against old ra , didnt i?
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0. please - my name is Jezzmin....nothing else  1. i did it for reaver: nf ras: ip3, purge2 -> 45 points = 5L5 old ras: ip, fa2, purge, reg1, tireless1 (the last 2 added to be "on par" with current implementation) -> 32 -> 4L2...capping out of thid will give your EVERYTHING you need.... and don't mention rr5 now...for the 13 points difference you can choose this RA (well 1 point less, but then again you got FA2 and "best" purge, while nf purge2 is only second best) or choose others (aug qui 2, some crit-RA, long wind whatever)... the calculaction should be the same for the other hybrids you mentioned... 2. YES if find it "fair" for the main tanks to have cheaper abilities...guess why there's currently so many reavers and so few armsmen around...cause reavers are much better if RAs are equal...so armsman, with their lack of utility, should gain "something" from being a "main tank"...same for mercs... 3. again: i know that the lack of det makes hybrids much weaker then they are now, but imho that's the only downside...right now no1 is playing arms/hero/warri to a great extent, cause hybrids and lighttanks are better...with old RAs this will turn, but so what? arms will replace reavers and for the other realms nothing will change...so that's not even a downside for 80% of the players...compared to the "wins" we'll have (caster-/supporter-/low-rr-love, which means 80% of players will be happy with that!)
their major enemies, assassins, would lose viper as well as vanish (except for infs), which would make them much easier to fight..and true sight is sort of a win-button every X min...imho infs will gain a little with old RAs, while the other assassins will "lose" a little, which is just fine, considering the current uth-situation, where assassins are much better then scouts and hunters..rangers will lose a little too, which is just fine... Genuine Spirit Cabalist since 2002
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Yup. Apparently I am one of the only people with a Scout as main when Old RAs were out. See Hidden ruined archers and relegated them to True Sight bots or bait for stealth groups. Make it to amg with Camo. Kill someone. Camo goes down. Since every assassin has See Hidden, you die, release go back to CS. Port. Wait on Camo to be up. Make it to amg with Camo....... Not fun in the slightest. Now Uthgard does not have the population that live had when I played but even so. Many people rerolled as infs and many others like me quit DAOC altogether. Also before someone jumps in with "but you get true sight!" ,True Sight is a 30 minute timer ability, See HIdden is an always on passive ability. No comparison.
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You still fail to realize your class specializes in ranged-combat. Assassins specialize in close-combat. Whats the point of playing an assassin if you could be an expert at both close and ranged combat as an Archer? All I see Assassins complain about in-game is that they're always being uncovered at range for an immense amount of damage and find their selves unable to make it to the archer before they die (Almost the complete opposite of the claims against Old RA's). The assassin is supposed to be the master of stealth and death. If they spot an Archer standing on the main roads of AMG that's poor positioning on their part. They should be standing at bay ready to strike opponents. "It's not fair unless I'm winning!" |
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No argument from me that MOS as it currently works is total BS. An Archer can see me from an ungodly distance and even if I drop every RA I have right now and get MOS5 on my inf AND the fact that Assassins have Detect Hidden it will not matter as the Archer will have Camo up. Why do Archers have Camo when Camo was specifically put in the game as a counter to See Hidden which no longer exists? I dunno the answer. Also I know the server is classic and all but redoing the Archer lines would get a big +1 from me. As much as part of me would love to have See Hidden on my inf to get revenge on the MOS5 rangers at AMG I know all it would do is KILL the Archer population on Uthgard since Rangers would no longer be able to 3-4 shot every assassin the game. They would just stop playing all together.
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Because it counters MoS? [3:10pm] <myrmidon^> You have to be a c*** to be awesome at daoc
[3:10pm] <myrmidon^> that's what I learnt [3:11pm] <Frosty_> then why does austerim suck
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Stop this senseless template... We could start to discuss about the RA choice, but it's not the subject. And problem is not to compare what you have before and after. It's senseless and pointless. RIP : Ectoplasme
My own version of Uthgard Character Builder |
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As it stands, right now ranger/hunters and sort of scouts are the only counter to assassins. Sure, there are some high RR visi tanks that make an assassin think twice about attacking, but if the ranged stealthers were not there it would be the usual case of assassins killing everything with no natural predators to kill them. Please get off this whole "See Hidden" thing you keep bringing up. No, it did not let you see ranged stealthers at clipping distance. It was essentially MoS 3 (minus the movement) for assassins looking for non-assassin stealthers with camo down. You still get a watered down version of it as it is with "Detect Hidden" and its FREE. So to answer your question, the reason Camo is still in is because A) it counters MoS, B) it counters "Detect Hidden", and C) Because its an ability the ranged stealther has had for a VERY long time to be able to scout out areas without being uncovered from ANY form of stealth detection. See Hidden, Detect Hidden, and MoS all count as stealth detection and 2 of those 3 still exist with the current settings. Also, please stop your QQ fest about ranged stealthers. I seem to recall a certain infiltrator having no problem killing my MoS 4 hunter the other night. 2 of the times I fought you I had camo up. It was not a "I win" button. Nothing funnier than an assassin with Viper complaining about Camo because god forbid any class be able to kill an assassin. Let me rephrase that, god forbid any class have a CHANCE to kill an assassin. |
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if that's your point, this whole thread should be closed....either we discuss the "before and after" or nothing at all...just discussing "i am pro nf", "i am contra nf" is crap, because neither may explain why...that's senseless, true... and as for the template: it's a basic idea of what a class needs to run solo, often also in grp (my arms-RAs were fitting both more or less)...sure, if you wanna compare aug-qui-5-reaver nf and of there's a difference...nf is better here...but if you compare normal "basic templates" including the most important RAs it boils down to OF being much cheaper than NF... i know nothing will be perfect with OF...but the low-rr and caster-love of OF compared to NF RAs are absolutely worth it...and not having to deal with perma-purge-viper3-assassins (or perma-purge-enemies in general) will be nice for a change too....i might even run solo (unbuffed ofc, as usual) with caby again  Genuine Spirit Cabalist since 2002
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The minimum level you needed to be competitive in OF was much lower than NF for sure(at least 2 full realm levels imo on average). But where NF really goes nuts is the upper threshold, where it lets you just keep spending and spending to make your actives infinitely better than your lower RR peers(making that new RR6 player in NF less and less competitive as the server levels). Its no wonder they kept upping the RR cap. There was always some RA you needed to make better, even at RR11 NF had something you could still spend pts on for a big advantage. |
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Then why don't Assassins get it? Archers get MOS also.
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