ForumFairplay for all !!!
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its true uthgard has never been a classic server and especially not livelike, and will never be. how hard is it to admit it, will ease ur work alot dear staff... idk however if old ras or new ras, both have pro and con imo but it would be nice for a change thats for sure!
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Better deny and stay blind, and keep believe that its a classic server, it make their stupid choice and '' fix '' more easier to believe for themselves. Ofc this post will be deleted :p 2012:<@[Uth]Abydos> If we don't have SI by the end of the year, Im fairly certain I wont be a GM anymore :-p
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Actually i am not even against old RA... as said if it would be possible to try it and changing back after we saw the flaws.... why not. But i don't get why people - and lasastart is one of those - think there is any need to change something. The setting is just fine the way it is! And i really don't get why such people have to go on their holy crusade to show the staff flaws in logic and argument silly stuff until the server becomes really unplayable for all, but they can say: you see i was correct and you wrong. NF just sucks for a lot of people, as OF sucks for you. That is just personal taste.
does it break somehow? Maybe Attacking? Are people that get CC' during SoS able to do anything else than running around? Are they CCt after SoS fades? Do they get immunity if they get CC during SoS and it fades during SoS? What range did it have? Does it work while carrying a relic? Just the first questions that come to my mind... i know answers to all of them, but ask 10 old player and you get 10 different answers... actually about 3,5 years ago i made a thread to help the devs give info about old RA from the player. So they could implement them faster i thought in my young and unaware life here on uthgard. And there were so many different answers to every single RA, it was astounding. |
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Its 200% speed regardless of what you do, it doesn't change the immunity rules, and even if the range was wrong in uthgard's implementation, that detail would have an immeasurably small effect compared to what a perfect version of NF's version does. NF completely alters the RA. Alb only versus all realm, doesn't over ride already landed mezz/stun, these are big issues, versus the possibility that the range, or use with relics isn't perfect. The perfect should not be the enemy of the good. |
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What Holsten posted above is exactly what I'm talking about. You guys make it sound like we can just make general assumptions about Old RA's and just "make them work" but that is not how it works here and it has never worked that way since I have been on this server. When you implement things based on memory and half truths that are barely researched you end up with what we have now, which is a set of decently working RA's but they are not working properly. So now as players get upset because an RA is not working the way it is supposed to and now we have to test and prove how it is supposed to work. Now you want to start back over, and yes many of the RA's work very similiar or the same, some are pretty self explanatory, but as Holsten stated it seems that way now till people figure out bugs and abuse them.
No matter how much the GM's try and see down the road a player will quickly find the ways to abuse improperly used RA's or skills. Archers using True Shot bug and stacking them or people that used the Volley bug for a long time or even the people abusing crits on crit shot bugs come to mind as a couple examples. I realise these are all example of archery bugs, but that is what I know in this game. I'm sure the same applies to all classes. The players always find the bugs first and then exploit the $hit out of them. This would be even more rampant if we ever made this change. At least now we have the ability as players to see a bug, test it against live, and show how it should be working. With Old RA's you wouldn't have this chance. How long did it take players to abuse all the bugs we have? You bring up Grapple and Trip and how its pretty self explanatory on how they should work, but I counter with Static Tempest. Static Tempest with New RA's is very simple to understand. The description makes it seem very easy to implement. Why then did it take until VERY recently for it to start working properly? The reason is because the little things (stun immunity being taken away for example) to be PROVEN on live and shown EXACTLY how it works before the GM's would fix it. What about TWF using the Y axis? What about people still spamming WoC when it is supposed to reset the timer? I could go through and list them all but I think we can all see that there would be ALOT of guess work going in to Old RA's. Yes, the current RA's are not all working properly, but at least we have had years to see where they are broken and we can at least test them on Live and prove where they are broke. We will not have this system and I for one do not want a system that can never be proven to be working right. |
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We don't have fully working New RAs but lets wipe the slate clean and put in Old RAs on guesses.
 [3:10pm] <myrmidon^> You have to be a c*** to be awesome at daoc
[3:10pm] <myrmidon^> that's what I learnt [3:11pm] <Frosty_> then why does austerim suck
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Context is null and void. It is unarguable. How do you determine this context? Is it based on tanks perspective? Casters perspective? Support classes? Stealthers? Maybe they should look at the context of how it works in Group RvR, or maybe small man RvR, or what about Solo RvR... Mythic is STILL trying to "balance" things and this game is over 10 years old. Charge is a powerful RA, it is not the end all be all of RvR. Viper is strong, it can be countered. PD is strong, but against classes that use magic/poisons/or a mix of magic and mele it is not that powerful. You see, "context" is something that has no defined areas. You know what does though? Patch levels.... Gee, I wonder why the GM's chose to go with a particular patch level instead of trying to do something that Mythic/EA couldnt do in the entire 10+ years of this game being out.  |
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TWF is quite a prime example how hard it can get to get it right in the details. And it was testable.
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Authgard.net+TWF Most players seem to have a VERY simplified view of how stuff is to be implemented. Sometimes I get the feeling they just want to have a certain favorite (overpowered) RA back. It's done when it's done. Thanks for your patience.
Every bug gets fixed. Sooner or later. "It is an inescapable law of nature that the amount of satisfaction one gains from achieving something is related to how hard it is and easy things can only elicit a fleeting superficial sort of pleasure." Blue says, "you used macro tools or macro keyboard" Pala says, "i am disabled. and i have a mechanic left hand that can be programed. its hard to play woith one hand" [Appeal] Bxxxxxxxx: "why is RA first aid cann man i stealth use and not unstealth cann man ra if man use unstealth ?????????" BannedUser: "i was not using automate game action my hand was fall on keyboard during i was sleep .... i was completly fall on keyboard ..." |
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The same thing could be said for those defending the current system. Wanting to maintain their current favorite (overpowered) RA or combination of RA's. "It's not fair unless I'm winning!" |
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And even if the staff would start working to implement correctly working Old RA´s, the same people that are whining about current setup will also be the first ones to cry "wtf wth why aren´t you working on bugfixes?!?!" And a part of those ppl will start to complain about old ra´s when they realize "wtf my twink is ****** up now, fix it!" Every game starts a patchlevel 0. Some imbalances show up, and the game gets patched. New imbalances are implemented by the patch, and another patch is implemented. and so on, and so on, and so on. And does anybody in this thread rly think that all ppl with high RR (most of stable forum users, casuals dont care about forums) are yelling for Old RA´s are doing this to balance the RvR, so Low RR grps will have any better chance to defeat them?  The same people that are talking about livelike level for patch 1.69 (and old ra´s) are the same that complained about hastener removal, barrel removal... ah, and i forgot: are wearing Tajendi-Items in their templates. They´re not livelike, but the so-called defenders of "livelike setting without custom changes" just use them, because they prefer livelike gameplay *yawns* Not just a single player will demand any change of which they can´t profit from. This post was made by Samaritu who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.
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that's not true...i did research on bolts without ever playing any bolt-class nor ever wanting to play one...i also made a bug report on horse-dismounting when pet is in combat, which is even negative for me...sure i want old RAs, because old purge and moc are better for my caby but at the same time old RAs are not as good for me in general as some of them tend to be disadvanteguous for low rr players, which i am...and old caby-only-RA just sucked comparing to current rr5 ra...so no, not every1 demands changes to profit from them only.. Genuine Spirit Cabalist since 2002
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No Blue NF ras is ok when we balnced some things , yeah this is costum but some thing here to we dont musst have old ras but plz trust a guy who play 12 years daoc when he say thats he never see on daoc thats wizzard so a lame char or why tanks have charge, det and hardcore snare but no any kind of carsting speed on Old ras we have spec it on Toa on items but here we dont have any kind of that i dont wanna flamme you i wannt only little bit more balance |
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well, issn't it "classic"? 
yeah, because lasa would profit so much from hibs having old ras and i am so eager to lose charge and gain what... oh wait, nothing actually. old ra's put low rr's into a much better position over high rrs. so you are completely wrong on this one... |
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@ Shintari- What is classic to one is not classic to another. I know of people that think ToA was classic. I know of some that think classic means no SC'ing or Alchemy. Classic is a vague term that does not have defined criteria. For this server Blue has stated his goals are 1.69 with some skills/RA's moved up to 1.80. He has also stated that he plans on implementing an RvR overhaul that will add keep porting and tie keeps into the amount of relic gaurds one holds, as well as possible customization on some of the perceived OP'd RA's. That is Blue's version of Classic.
I believe Blue and the other GM's would also like to introduce Old RA's since they were the first ones to mention implementing Old RA's. It was only after the first attempt failed that they realised it was beyond our capabilities of implementing them properly. @ Dingiva- Overall I agree with your post a 110%. I will say that not ALL classes are pushing for Old or New RA's simply out of greed for their toons having more powerful RA's. I will fully admit that playing ranger and hunter as my mains does influence my personal decision on Old vs. New RA's, but I also try and look at the big picture. In my personal opinion, I feel that Old RA's change some balance issues, but also create others. As Jezzemin pointed out, I also have helped fix multiple bugs that ranged stealthers could abuse. I helped fix the crit on crit shot bug, the not coming unstealthed on bow shots bug, the volley not expending arrows bug, and recently tried showing that bow should not be able to go beyond the hard cap of 1.5 (which was proven to be working properly). I agree that MOST people only look at these things from their own perspective, but there are some on here that honestly do feel one is better than the other overall. |
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