Sturlek wrote:

RonELuvv wrote:Hey Sturleck, you shouldnt have to stare at the Herald all night to figure out where a fg of Albs are just so you can chase them from realm to realm as they desperately try to get another task in.

What a load of crap. Yes, actually, you should have to stare at the herald all night if you want information about an enemy's position. And it takes no effort to do so either, since you seem to exaggeratedly imply it does. You are not entitled to know anything about where the enemy is unless they are attacking a keep, period. You are also not entitled to guaranteed rvr action from anyone who doesn't want to participate in it, regardless of what their motivations might be. A tasking group during off hours has no more advantage in staying hidden than a group that is out solely to kill frontier mobs. Do you also think a late-night Green Knight group should be forced into action simply because you can't be bothered to "chase them down"? No, the only argument you have against guard tasks is that it further skews the already subjective connection between realm rank and skill, so stop pretending that tasking groups somehow have an un-counterable method of evading all action because we both know that is complete horsesh!t.

You say we are not entitled to guaranteed rvr action from anyone who doesnt want to participate in it. My question is if they are out tasking and its so easy to watch the keeps and get out there and kill them, then wouldnt the people doing these tasks be participating in it? When they come out to ANY frontier zone, then they are indeed participating in RvR whether they like it or not. The same applies to people farming frontier mobs. I also could care less if a person wants to get to 110 on tasks. I did them on my ranger even at higher RR's when the action was low. I just think taking keeps makes more sense. By doing this it makes people actually do something for their realm to earn REALM points. Killing gaurds over and over again does nothing for your realm. BTW, nothing makes me happier then when I see a RR9L+ toon that has no clue how to play their toon because they tasked all day. I love those guys, I dont hate them.

Sturlek wrote:Thanks for assuming I'm opposed to the change by the way, when in reality all I've done so far in this thread is call out you and your guildie for your broken logic and blatant lies. I'm actually undecided at this point whether I favor the change or not. On one hand I think it can lead to increased group RvR action, but on the other hand I think it will also kill solo action in the alb and mid frontiers, and also leaves a large vacuum in terms of feasible rvr activities for casual and incoherent solo players during off hours. If I am a hypothetical 9th Midgard player online during a night where population is 40-50, and there is a fga running around that insists on killing every enemy in its path, I am now essentially SOL in terms of ways to make RP's until more people log in. Both you and Zai are naively assuming that there is always a feasible way for an odd player out to make realm points, but that is demonstrably untrue in certain scenarios, and this change has eliminated one of the few ways to alleviate the low population problem.

I didnt assume you were opposed to the change. You implied in this thread before I ever commented that you were against it and you were arguing against it. Also, you claim that the only way to gain RP's when you are the 9th player in RvR or whatever situation would come up that makes it so there is "no rp's" to be gained is false. Yes, if you just wanted to do frontier RvR then you might be limited at times. However, there is always the frontier dungeons to go and get some kills. There is DF. There is also STILL the ability to do these tasks as well as now you can always grab a few people and go take keeps instead. This change only eliminated the ability for HIGH RR solo and group players to do nothing but farm mobs for Realm points. Also, low RR's still have the ability to gain the much needed RR's to compete by tasking. Now higher RR players will just be more encouraged to either take keeps or come out and actually try to improve the population of people wanting to actually fight other players.

I know you waiver on this change and you are entitled to your opinion, but dont make it seem like my liking this change is based on flawed logic or because you and my guildie are having a flame war here. Whether you agree with me or not I think I have backed up my statements pretty well, and I certainly havent said any blatant lies. My logic being flawed is possible, but the same could be said about yours.

Orihiime wrote:Sorry but a rr11 tasking for 200 rps, what should i do than laugh ?

You should ignore, or maybe you didn't realize that not commenting is an option? At the very least, make an argument on why a RR11 shadowblade shouldn't task, since nothing you've said has been convincing in the least.

Orihiime wrote:Point c, i rvr in all playtime when there is action. Ask Ginsu, or others hib american, im playing often with them at ur time as a druid.

If you run with Gynsu's group during US time then you are either unaware of the mids you are fighting, in which case your opinion on who participates in group rvr is irrelevant, or you are lying and your claim that "Sturlek doesn't rvr a lot" is invalid by default. Or the third option is that your definition of "a lot" is bogus, since I think most people would agree that 11k kills is not trivial. Maybe you'd care to change your claim from "Sturlek doesn't rvr a lot" to "Sturlek hasn't rvr'd as much as the average 9L9 player", in which case I will respond with, "so what?"

Orihiime wrote:Point B, yes i play at amg, because there is where is the most inc. Why should i go in other place ? For waste 1 hour waiting an inc ?

Didn't say that. But if the majority of your rvr experience is sitting at amg, then why should anyone listen to your opinion on who does and doesn't rvr in the other zones? And where exactly do you think my 11k rp's came from? Do you think it's more likely that my kills score is fake, or that you just aren't completely aware of what everyone is doing outside of amg at all times?

The bottom line is this: you're free to play however you want, but don't pretend that your way of playing is the "best" way to play or that it's the "real" way to play, especially if you can't even make any effort to explain why.

Thought I would finally create an account and weigh in here:

1) The changes are great for those who group together and roam about taking keeps. I had a whale of a time doing that yesterday on a visible class.

2) There are fewer people in Emain now. Yes, I still see full groups roaming, but these changes have made Emain as the "default" place to go to less likely.
(Incidentally, who came up with the idea that Emain and the AMG were the de facto place to gather for RvR anyway?)

3) This seriously hurts solo and occasional players, and as Sturlek is right. It hurts people playing outside those timezones where European players are generally up (the majority of the population from what I can see)

Yes, Emain AMG still has people there. But, what are you going to do if you are a solo non-hib stealther, and there duos and trios of rangers killing you at AMG? That isn't going to make someone want to continue going back there.

Zai - Do you know how difficult it is to get a finely tuned group of 8 together? Nearly impossible if you aren't with people who have been playing the same class for years and RvRed together.

Yes, these changes have changed the dynamic of RvR, but for those of us who solo or who don't have loads of time to play the game, we can't just task to actually be able to compete with the high RR players.

thursa wrote:Yes, Emain AMG still has people there. But, what are you going to do if you are a solo non-hib stealther, and there duos and trios of rangers killing you at AMG? That isn't going to make someone want to continue going back there.

I was fighting all this duo/trio hib, and even albs for years with my sb, and most of time i was solo. just improve, and u will be able to kill one in the group, it give u a better satisfaction than a simple 1v1

This changed has helped casuals significantly. I have not seen so many low RR's in RvR in ages! Why? Because as a zerg, numbers help them gain that RR, rather than PvE'ing it.

The problem with tasking is that people avoid RvR and it wasn't as easy to catch players tasking. It's nearly impossible to catch a solo tasker on your keep, or form a counter group to slay the taskers before they suicide (unless they stay out for another task). This change has helped encourage Keep attack/defending significantly. Now when players see fires, it doesn't indicate a "task group that will suicide soon." It indicates there is a group attempting to take the keep, get out there and defend if you can!

Please stop defending "Guard Tasks", I'm appalled that players could find such a route so appealing. It's such a bogus system. Why even have such a reward system if players can gain ranks being half-afk? Rather than farming mobs, low RR players can now make an impact by tagging along these keep attack/defense groups to gain their RR's, experience, and fun.

This is a nice solution for those that feel they could never compete in Emain 8v8, it allows players to "catch up."

Since longtime there wasnt big fight zerg like the last 2 days, and for the first time, no one cried about zerg, they just came more and fighted again. This change is good, and im sure most of ppl enjoy it

RonELuvv wrote:
You say we are not entitled to guaranteed rvr action from anyone who doesnt want to participate in it. My question is if they are out tasking and its so easy to watch the keeps and get out there and kill them, then wouldnt the people doing these tasks be participating in it? When they come out to ANY frontier zone, then they are indeed participating in RvR whether they like it or not. The same applies to people farming frontier mobs.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to say, it seems you're getting hung up on a semantic issue that has little to do with the actual point. Let me clarify: you are not entitled to guaranteed fights with other players that do not want to fight you. That way you can't get confused on whether tasking or mob killing is technically rvr or not. But I still fail to see why you think you shouldn't have to "chase them from realm to realm" regardless of what they're doing. Example #1.

RonELuvv wrote:By doing this it makes people actually do something for their realm to earn REALM points. Killing gaurds over and over again does nothing for your realm.

And how does killing the same 8 people over and over again by running circles in emain help your realm? How does killing solo stealthers at amg help your realm? Why should any of these activities be worth realm points when they are just as selfish as guard tasking? If we are only awarding RP's for activites that help the realm, then only keep and relic takes are worth rp's. Like I already said, the only defensible argument you have against guard tasking is that it screws up this undefined, subjective connection between realm rank and "skill" that people like to fantasize about. Helping the realm has nothing to do with it. Example #2.

RonELuvv wrote:I didnt assume you were opposed to the change.

You're right, you actually didn't assume that directly, so I'll take that back. You did however throw out this little gem:

RonELuvv wrote:Dont you guys find it funny that the only people QQ'ing about this are Sturleck and the Albs that abuse this? That should tell you all something about why they feel the way they do.

Putting aside the fact that you aren't clear about whether 'this' refers to simply removing guard tasks or the changelog notes in their entirety, you should know better than to try and invoke such a stupid fallacy. Whether or not I have something to gain from keep tasks certainly has some weight on my opinion on the matter, but it has no bearing on the validity of the arguments being made for or against it. You should attack the arguments based on their own merit, rather than trying to appeal to the ulterior motives of those who present them. Unless of course you're happy debating like a 14-year-old. Example #3.

RonELuvv wrote:Yes, if you just wanted to do frontier RvR then you might be limited at times. However, there is always the frontier dungeons to go and get some kills. There is DF.

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly would not stay in the game if my only options for making rp's during a quiet night were the sub-50 xp'ers in Marfach, or whoever was leftover in DF after it switched over from one realm to another. These are simply not viable options for someone who wants to get past rr6, and more importantly they do not put US players anywhere near even footing with Euro players in terms of potential rp gain. So even if I am the only one who would log out if these were the only options for rp gain (which I have a feeling I'm not), you still have the problem of equalizing the playing field between US and EU players.

RonELuvv wrote:I know you waiver on this change and you are entitled to your opinion, but dont make it seem like my liking this change is based on flawed logic or because you and my guildie are having a flame war here. Whether you agree with me or not I think I have backed up my statements pretty well, and I certainly havent said any blatant lies.

No you didn't say anything patently untrue; that was mostly Austerim. However I still think your reasoning is severely flawed as shown by examples 1-3 above.

_Oglop_ wrote:This changed has helped casuals significantly. I have not seen so many low RR's in RvR in ages! Why? Because as a zerg, numbers help them gain that RR, rather than PvE'ing it.

The problem with tasking is that people avoid RvR and it wasn't as easy to catch players tasking. It's nearly impossible to catch a solo tasker on your keep, or form a counter group to slay the taskers before they suicide (unless they stay out for another task). This change has helped encourage Keep attack/defending significantly. Now when players see fires, it doesn't indicate a "task group that will suicide soon." It indicates there is a group attempting to take the keep, get out there and defend if you can!

Please stop defending "Guard Tasks", I'm appalled that players could find such a route so appealing. It's such a bogus system. Why even have such a reward system if players can gain ranks being half-afk? Rather than farming mobs, low RR players can now make an impact by tagging along these keep attack/defense groups to gain their RR's, experience, and fun.

This is a nice solution for those that feel they could never compete in Emain 8v8, it allows players to "catch up."

It has been fun. The zerg v. zerg action is great during the day, and our battlegroup made ~150,000 rp's in a matter of minutes when we took Berk . And if the action continues this way in the long run, I'll be the first to hail this as a net positive change. But the fact that the keep take reward changes are so far great doesn't really make much of a statement on the guard task changes.

All ur crys for task is crap just go watch this : viewtopic.php?f=86&t=27867&p=264401#p264401
First time you see a fight like this on uth for a simple keep. And this happen because of the nerf task and more reward for raiding a keep. thx to the staff ! Hope to see more changement that improve the rvr like this

Orihiime wrote:

thursa wrote:Yes, Emain AMG still has people there. But, what are you going to do if you are a solo non-hib stealther, and there duos and trios of rangers killing you at AMG? That isn't going to make someone want to continue going back there.

I was fighting all this duo/trio hib, and even albs for years with my sb, and most of time i was solo. just improve, and u will be able to kill one in the group, it give u a better satisfaction than a simple 1v1

Rofl, are you serius alanya??

Maybe the duo in runental video you can kill alone
And maybe at 10L

Caemma wrote:

Orihiime wrote:

thursa wrote:Yes, Emain AMG still has people there. But, what are you going to do if you are a solo non-hib stealther, and there duos and trios of rangers killing you at AMG? That isn't going to make someone want to continue going back there.

I was fighting all this duo/trio hib, and even albs for years with my sb, and most of time i was solo. just improve, and u will be able to kill one in the group, it give u a better satisfaction than a simple 1v1

Rofl, are you serius alanya??

Maybe the duo in runental video you can kill alone
And maybe at 10L

Its not because you are bad with your sb that everyone is. Since i killed 3x of you stealther mid solo with my ranger bow one time at amg, well it say big about ur skill say hi to Soramaro for me, thx

thursa wrote:Thought I would finally create an account and weigh in here:

1) The changes are great for those who group together and roam about taking keeps. I had a whale of a time doing that yesterday on a visible class.

2) There are fewer people in Emain now. Yes, I still see full groups roaming, but these changes have made Emain as the "default" place to go to less likely.
(Incidentally, who came up with the idea that Emain and the AMG were the de facto place to gather for RvR anyway?)

3) This seriously hurts solo and occasional players, and as Sturlek is right. It hurts people playing outside those timezones where European players are generally up (the majority of the population from what I can see)

Yes, Emain AMG still has people there. But, what are you going to do if you are a solo non-hib stealther, and there duos and trios of rangers killing you at AMG? That isn't going to make someone want to continue going back there.

Zai - Do you know how difficult it is to get a finely tuned group of 8 together? Nearly impossible if you aren't with people who have been playing the same class for years and RvRed together.

Yes, these changes have changed the dynamic of RvR, but for those of us who solo or who don't have loads of time to play the game, we can't just task to actually be able to compete with the high RR players.

You don't magically get a good 8man group going. Its something you work towards. You learn how to play together. I've built tons of good groups, the more you build the easier it gets.

It's been 3 days, and one first weekend, with these changes.

Pretty damn small sample size.

It will be interesting how things go these next 2 weeks say, for those of us in NA and notably prime time EDT.

What our Euro friends experienced this weekend during that prime time probably was a nice bonus and unexpected fun ( or grief).

It's called work your ass off i did why does it matter who u are

My opinion about what tasks adds in RvR action:

- If there is a tasker a taskerhunter will appear (theres lots of ppl like me who loves to hunt taskers)
- You can task while looking for taskers or...kill the taskerhunter that try to kill you
- Keepdefence from taskers (some keeps are so busy and found some small battles if there are taskers from all realms in same keep)
- And much more scenarios like this because you need to roam the frontier to do guard tasks and you can find interesting action not related to tasking but found thx to it

after the change on archer guards LoS now is hard or impossible for some classes to do tasks, this is what you destroyed with this change and will totally desappear if guard tasks are removed. All this changes are made to force everybody to go emain but what you are ignoring is that lots of ppl (like me) HATES emain RvR behavior and we try to find or take the action to other places.