Rector wrote:Is this fixed btw? (http://uthgard.net/de/forum/viewtopic.p ... /start,60/)

Both chars were Hunters RR5+.
+skill from item counted twice into displayed weaponskill, 2 years ago.
1 Skillpoint = 5 WS
1 Skillpoint given from an item = 10 WS

Nicely done Rector but that is not a display bug ..thats how it actually works on live , i will put the findings from last night when i l have the time, you will be amazed to see how many diferences there are between classes ..the coef factor was taken in some situations but the truth is another one , some gain more or less from +1 to str or dext depends by class , while there is a diferent gain at some classes from + 1 to skil from : items, rr, training ..
Since i started to play daoc i payed atention to how WS increases ..because..i m crazy..i know:)) , so when i made a lvl or when i trained i took notes, and its a known fact that + to skil from items gives more WS then training one or + from rr but i never bothered to see how much and if its diferent on some classes.

Bonus from items often was more worth than a bonus from a buff. We should consider that in every case!

It can confuse quite a lot if we not write down exactly how many bonus points came from items and how many came from buffs.

Okay, thats another point then where daoc mechanics are not logic and it's probably correctly implemented on Uthgard then

Blue wrote:Bonus from items often was more worth than a bonus from a buff. We should consider that in every case!

It can confuse quite a lot if we not write down exactly how many bonus points came from items and how many came from buffs.

True, i ve done tests for 9 classes so far, wana do for valew , warden , reaver and one for archer , and i m done.

Rector wrote:Okay, thats another point then where daoc mechanics are not logic and it's probably correctly implemented on Uthgard then

They propably want to reward you and give you the feel that specific item is something worth and has influence. But they could also just double the amount of points on items and remove that strange behaviour. But we dont know where the points count twice and where they do not.

I ve made a new thread about the diferent weapon skils i found : viewtopic.php?f=15&t=25414

Ok, I have a question. According to the formulas the min base damage dealt is:

min base dmg = Effective DPS * (your WS/target AF) * (relic bonus) * (1-absorb) * (1-base resists) * (1-RA resists) * slow weap bonus * SPD * arrow bonus *

now define: Effective DPS, relic bonus, absorb, base resists, RA resists, slow weap bonus,SPD, arrow bonus = constant

This means, min base dmg = K * your WS/target AF

I think, this relation should be verified by testing on live, because this would mean that

i) a level 50 character wearing level 45 armor (at capped AF) would get the same amount of damage from a attacking (lvl 50) character as a level 45 character wearing the same armor.

ii) a level 50 character having composite weapon spec 51 dealing the same base damage to the same target as a level 50 character having 50+15 overspec and the same WS (since the damage variation stays the same).

When this can be confirmed, I willing to belive that WS is acutually a number used on live for the calculation of damage and not just a virtual number that has no direct influence.

Garad wrote:Ok, I have a question. According to the formulas the min base damage dealt is:

min base dmg = Effective DPS * (your WS/target AF) * (relic bonus) * (1-absorb) * (1-base resists) * (1-RA resists) * slow weap bonus * SPD * arrow bonus *

now define: Effective DPS, relic bonus, absorb, base resists, RA resists, slow weap bonus,SPD, arrow bonus = constant

This means, min base dmg = K * your WS/target AF

I think, this relation should be verified by testing on live, because this would mean that

i) a level 50 character wearing level 45 armor (at capped AF) would get the same amount of damage from a attacking (lvl 50) character as a level 45 character wearing the same armor.

ii) a level 50 character having composite weapon spec 51 dealing the same base damage to the same target as a level 50 character having 50+15 overspec and the same WS (since the damage variation stays the same).

When this can be confirmed, I willing to belive that WS is acutually a number used on live for the calculation of damage and not just a virtual number that has no direct influence.

I told you that you dont read all that is written :

There are several other unknown factors involved in this equation, but their effects are small enough that it does not ruin the approximation. These include: condition of the armor worn on the location hit, the CON of the target, and potentially other factors.

At the same time mythic has stated changes to critical shot damage which appears to be level based damage modifiers where the damage done is based off of a multiplier that takes specifically into account the attacker's spec, and the target's level to determine the bonus/penalty to the damage inflicted on top of normal damage calculations. It is unconfirmed if this also applies to all other damage as well.
And you cant have same WS with 51 composite and 50 +15 .. dunno what u r trying to say..but keep in mind that its not me who made this formula , it needs to be tested, i ve put it here or discussion and testing, they are ideas of others .. feel free to go live and test it .

Checked WS on uthg at several specs ..its with even 36 WS more then live .. my spec on zerker: 35 axe, +11 skil from items, +7 skil from rr , 235 str = 1389 ws on uthgard and 1363 on WS calc close to live , thats a 26 dif.

MotaroReloaded wrote:dunno what u r trying to say..but keep in mind that its not me who made this formula , it needs to be tested, i ve put it here or discussion and testing, they are ideas of others .. feel free to go live and test it .

I know that this are not your formulas. But you draw conclusions from this formulas to possibly explain that the damage of composite spec on Uthgard might be to high compared to live. This could be the case, but it also could not be the case - and imho I would find it logical that someone who only has composite spec does less base damage and have a less defense penetration than someone who overspec. But since this is not about logic but on live behavior, I only want trying to say that - though the formular might provide an approximation to base damage - the non-linear behavior of WS you discovered on live actually might not result in the same scaling for damage.

Uthgard WS formula matches live results with one exception. Skill bonus from items have 73% more worth on live than trained skill points. Whether that has influence on damage needs to be tested on live.

I would also recommend to review WS class factors of every class (also with different weapontypes) as we have seen the class factor for Berserker is 2.19 instead 2.20. Same applies to other classes where the class factor is exactly 0.01 lower than we have it.

Blue wrote:Uthgard WS formula matches live results with one exception. Skill bonus from items have 73% more worth on live than trained skill points. Whether that has influence on damage needs to be tested on live.

I would also recommend to review WS class factors of every class (also with different weapontypes) as we have seen the class factor for Berserker is 2.19 instead 2.20. Same applies to other classes where the class factor is exactly 0.01 lower than we have it.

So .. do we add something to base dmg knowing that skill bonus items give 73% more WS and has influence on dmg link : viewtopic.php?f=15&t=25436&p=235640#p235640 ..? or we leave it just for the WS display?:D

Garad wrote:Ok, I have a question. According to the formulas the min base damage dealt is:

min base dmg = Effective DPS * (your WS/target AF) * (relic bonus) * (1-absorb) * (1-base resists) * (1-RA resists) * slow weap bonus * SPD * arrow bonus *

now define: Effective DPS, relic bonus, absorb, base resists, RA resists, slow weap bonus,SPD, arrow bonus = constant

This means, min base dmg = K * your WS/target AF

I think, this relation should be verified by testing on live, because this would mean that

i) a level 50 character wearing level 45 armor (at capped AF) would get the same amount of damage from a attacking (lvl 50) character as a level 45 character wearing the same armor.

ii) a level 50 character having composite weapon spec 51 dealing the same base damage to the same target as a level 50 character having 50+15 overspec and the same WS (since the damage variation stays the same).

When this can be confirmed, I willing to belive that WS is acutually a number used on live for the calculation of damage and not just a virtual number that has no direct influence.

1. Yes you make same base dmg on a lvl 50 wearing lvl 40 armours or a lvl 40 wearing lvl 40 armours, the AF is the same and you get no con bonus, i ve just tested it.
2. With 50+15 you will have a higher base dmg then with 51 composite but not with much, thus the WS/af shows the truth, i ve tested it also.


Its very well explained how WS/AF work and if AF is low enough you will hit for cap dmg and all the other components of the base dmh formula are not taken into consideration anymore .
Also bit lower they explain an issue i reported here but few understood it at that time..how you can actually hit for more then cap dmg .

I m just Up ing this thread because i got some important ecuations on it .

Could you make an excel file with these info please it would be easier to use them.