Lasastard wrote:Hi,

I know I know, this topic comes up every so often, but I think we should keep the discussion going:

It is pretty clear that RvR at the moment is pretty much split into 2, probably 3 major types: Emain 8v8s, stealthers and BGs. To me it seems that there is not a lot of overlap in terms of the players engaging in any of those threes, meaning there seems to be a sizable fraction of players on Uthgard that are content playing BG toons without ever setting foot into the frontiers. And I get that, I really do - Emain is not exactly casual friendly. But this is where some changes are needed. Uthgard has enough population to really get the action going in the frontiers, but to me it seems that the 'spark' is missing. So what do you think can be done to make RvR more attractive for the non-8vs8 crowd?

Some thoughts:

- Regular zerg events. This could be done by players in each realm, but perhaps better by a GM. The general idea is that e.g. a keep is declared the target and all three realms can fight over it. The winner could get a minor reward, enough to encourage participation, but not too desirable as to lead people to switch realms half way through. Do this weekly, perhaps, and hope that it eventually takes on a life of its own.

- Cut down on time sinks in RvR - e.g. let people port to frontier keeps as it was possible in NF. At the moment dying not only means losing, but 10mins lost in porting, buffing, etc. I don't suggest 'instant action', but something more compatible with a non-hardcore playstyle would be appreciated, I would think

- Some greater purpose to RvRing (apart from the challenge + RPs). Especially for a 'zerg' there is not a whole lot of point in forming to begin with. Relic raids should be a major incentive, yes, but this is already the end game and will not happen all that often. For most people it matters little if they have a few % more dmg. What else could be done? Difficult, I agree. Maybe let Relic lords drop Uthalis, spawn an event NPC with cosmetic items/reskins following a successful relic raid, or even drops from the SI epic dungeons. Personally, I am not the biggest fan of encouraging PvP by means of sparkly trinkets, but if that's what it takes... And maybe that wouldn't be the main attraction for a lot of players, but perhaps enough for some to get the ball rolling. Critical mass is a real issue here, and perhaps that could be something to kick things off. The hope, of course, is that over time a second RvR culture is established that makes it attractive for non-8vs8 players to go out and kick each others teeth in.

Anything else?

PS: And yes, I prefer 8vs8. Why do I campaign for more zerg? Zerg get's people into RvR, and ultimately some of those people may decide that it could be fun to try out other aspects of RvR during times when no zerg is running. But generally, I just feel it was part of the original game and Uthgard simply fails to capture that at the moment.

ntc wrote:OF RAs, that is all, I think this may have been mentioned before??

You will see more lower RR toons out in frontiers, because with OF RAs, they have an easier time competing with high RR toons, which given the last BG gets you to 4l2, are most of the people out...Given this fact, you may also see people move out of BGs quicker...

for instance right now, you have to be at least RR7 to cover the basic RAs for a support class, OF RAs, you get this by RR5 (purge, aug dex, moc), these days lower rr have a lot of trouble dealing with (DI3/BOF3/MOC3/purge3) because you cant even get more then 1 of these til rr6+

and for stealth classes even more significant, imagine perfing someone almost always gets you the win?? crazy huh

Bloodwyne wrote:

Lasastard wrote:Hi,

I know I know, this topic comes up every so often, but I think we should keep the discussion going:

It is pretty clear that RvR at the moment is pretty much split into 2, probably 3 major types: Emain 8v8s, stealthers and BGs. To me it seems that there is not a lot of overlap in terms of the players engaging in any of those threes, meaning there seems to be a sizable fraction of players on Uthgard that are content playing BG toons without ever setting foot into the frontiers. And I get that, I really do - Emain is not exactly casual friendly. But this is where some changes are needed. Uthgard has enough population to really get the action going in the frontiers, but to me it seems that the 'spark' is missing. So what do you think can be done to make RvR more attractive for the non-8vs8 crowd?

Some thoughts:

- Regular zerg events. This could be done by players in each realm, but perhaps better by a GM. The general idea is that e.g. a keep is declared the target and all three realms can fight over it. The winner could get a minor reward, enough to encourage participation, but not too desirable as to lead people to switch realms half way through. Do this weekly, perhaps, and hope that it eventually takes on a life of its own.

- Cut down on time sinks in RvR - e.g. let people port to frontier keeps as it was possible in NF. At the moment dying not only means losing, but 10mins lost in porting, buffing, etc. I don't suggest 'instant action', but something more compatible with a non-hardcore playstyle would be appreciated, I would think

- Some greater purpose to RvRing (apart from the challenge + RPs). Especially for a 'zerg' there is not a whole lot of point in forming to begin with. Relic raids should be a major incentive, yes, but this is already the end game and will not happen all that often. For most people it matters little if they have a few % more dmg. What else could be done? Difficult, I agree. Maybe let Relic lords drop Uthalis, spawn an event NPC with cosmetic items/reskins following a successful relic raid, or even drops from the SI epic dungeons. Personally, I am not the biggest fan of encouraging PvP by means of sparkly trinkets, but if that's what it takes... And maybe that wouldn't be the main attraction for a lot of players, but perhaps enough for some to get the ball rolling. Critical mass is a real issue here, and perhaps that could be something to kick things off. The hope, of course, is that over time a second RvR culture is established that makes it attractive for non-8vs8 players to go out and kick each others teeth in.

Anything else?

PS: And yes, I prefer 8vs8. Why do I campaign for more zerg? Zerg get's people into RvR, and ultimately some of those people may decide that it could be fun to try out other aspects of RvR during times when no zerg is running. But generally, I just feel it was part of the original game and Uthgard simply fails to capture that at the moment.

totally signed (though sadly ive seen and also tryed myself plenty of those attempts, but Blue has his own weird understanding of how uthgard should be and actually i think he had a picture in his head since 2003 and since then it never changed a color)

ntc wrote:OF RAs, that is all

holsten-knight wrote:if all would act like galandriel rvr would be more free for all, more like live in the beginning of daoc, more for zergs, more for casual player.

This game is originally designed for people only doing things for theyr rp and give nothing about fair play and care for the other realms...

yeyeye, i heard it all no need to say it all again. We are not in 2002 anymore, people and game evolved bla bla bla... sad but true. I am happy some players kept the spirit of the game and did not "evolve".

ZaiQQ wrote:OF ra's wont change anything, it will probably make it worse, its not like the rr10+ groups are fully dumping on the rr4's anyway.

Austerim wrote:

ntc wrote:OF RAs, that is all, I think this may have been mentioned before??

You will see more lower RR toons out in frontiers, because with OF RAs, they have an easier time competing with high RR toons, which given the last BG gets you to 4l2, are most of the people out...Given this fact, you may also see people move out of BGs quicker...

for instance right now, you have to be at least RR7 to cover the basic RAs for a support class, OF RAs, you get this by RR5 (purge, aug dex, moc), these days lower rr have a lot of trouble dealing with (DI3/BOF3/MOC3/purge3) because you cant even get more then 1 of these til rr6+

and for stealth classes even more significant, imagine perfing someone almost always gets you the win?? crazy huh

How does having to put most of your points into stupid per-requisite RAs mean you'll see more low RR people out in the frontiers and they'll somehow compete with the high RR people?

ntc wrote:

ZaiQQ wrote:OF ra's wont change anything, it will probably make it worse, its not like the rr10+ groups are fully dumping on the rr4's anyway.

Put it this way, Uthgard is the only server I have every played where you have zero chance of winning verse certain groups because of RAs...

On live RAs certainly help, as they do here, and RR should certainly be rewarded, but there has never been a time where we lost and said, well nothing we can do there just need RR....

- Regular zerg events. This could be done by players in each realm, but perhaps better by a GM. The general idea is that e.g. a keep is declared the target and all three realms can fight over it. The winner could get a minor reward, enough to encourage participation, but not too desirable as to lead people to switch realms half way through. Do this weekly, perhaps, and hope that it eventually takes on a life of its own.

ZaiQQ wrote:

ntc wrote:

ZaiQQ wrote:OF ra's wont change anything, it will probably make it worse, its not like the rr10+ groups are fully dumping on the rr4's anyway.

Put it this way, Uthgard is the only server I have every played where you have zero chance of winning verse certain groups because of RAs...

On live RAs certainly help, as they do here, and RR should certainly be rewarded, but there has never been a time where we lost and said, well nothing we can do there just need RR....

Don't know what you're talking about. Haven't encountered any "impossible" groups.