yes you are right. it is grey, and it is hard to decide. but for me it definitly looked like an agreement, because the alb was fighting the mid, when the ns destealthed, rushed to them and just killed the alb, than he waved and went away. This really looks like an alliance.
thats why i don't feel like i've acted in the grey zone.

In the situation 2vs1 both enemy realms I would help the one guy.
If we would manage to survive I would NOT kill him.
Maybe this can be seen as team up and I would risk the ban but I think such situation only happen when there is an extremely unfair fight.

It's not really the case that people really look for team ups with enemy realm - it happens when it happens and it's not organised.

@Eleras
This is what solo players do

Eleras wrote:- like 2 realms vs 1
so we can't say you aren't allowed to add. but we can say that you shouldn't ally with another realm, because §3.3 says that.
of course you could say that we need to ban someone who isn't adding a 1 on 1 fight. but i guess the community wouldn't like it.
but making alliances between realms should not get a confirmed habit.
the only exceptions will be some kind of upcoming events, where 2 realms might fight together vs the 3rd realm, but thats another story.

You do realize that 2 vs 1 realms happens ALL THE TIME? DAoC isn't 1 v 1 v 1, it's RvR, not stand-in-line fighting. I'm glad you're participating in the discussion but you yourself can see how this is confusing: One day we get banned (or warned) for not adding, the next day for adding.

Eleras wrote:and one last thing: it is very hard for us, to be sure if it is an ally by chance, or an arranged alliance, and because of that there was a warning, i was not that polite in the discussion - i'm sorry for that - but there was no ban, just a warning.

Eleras wrote:but it really looks strange for a gm if there are 2 fighting, another one comes, helps one of them, waves hugs and leaves.
if you continue your fight it might not be that bad, like you said, but it still would look very strange.

The 2nd quote is the problem. It shouldn't look strange at all. I do this all the time, and so do many other people. Sometimes the person they help is an honorable opponent, sometimes the person they kill ganked them a hundred times. This is 2011, no one needs emotes to arrange fights, there's MSN, IRC, Skype. This is just NORMAL player behavior.

You can run around Emain hugging and kissing every enemy you see, and that SHOULD NOT get anyone banned.

Add to that that we're free to choose when to add and not to add, and I really don't see the problem here.

Eleras wrote:yes you are right. it is grey, and it is hard to decide. but for me it definitly looked like an agreement, because the alb was fighting the mid, when the ns destealthed, rushed to them and just killed the alb, than he waved and went away. This really looks like an alliance.
thats why i don't feel like i've acted in the grey zone.

I understand your line of thinking, and that you would bring up the example from earlier today. However, you must realize that by your actions you have set a precedent for a re-interpretation(or perhaps, much stricter enforcement of a rule that was already in place) of the rules which, as I am going through step by step with you in this thread, is far from being very clear.

I think, for the sake of solo RvR and the health of the RvR community, you and the staff should take better steps in the future to very clearly delineate the rules between right and wrong. And, for those gray areas that we have encountered here, I would hope that you would err on the side of caution, rather than persecution.

yes and i hope we can find a way to to make it clearer, since there are about 20000 ways of fights.

I think it is pointless to discuss ... this is the very situation when a GM must stand his choices at all costs just because he cannot say "I was wrong" and loose his autority when looking at the mirror.

anyway ... my 2 cents ...

Uthgard at the moment is a very unfair rvr environment: with only 1, out of 3, frontier alive, Emain is the land where everything occurs. Soloing is an utopia for most players (newplayers the most) and this is not helped neither by GMs, neither by high rank 8v8groups that actually pretend not to be added, but kill everything that has 2 legs.

The only players who respect others, soloing, 1v1 etc. can very likely find themselves in the situation of get banned because with current GMs behaviour they alway fight in "the gray zone". So soloing is not only hard because of adders, high-rank fg grinding u for 50 rps, 1/3 frontier, but it is also very hard because of "rules".

I don't know why uthgard is not like many other live servers where emain=zerg, odin=8v8/solo, hadrian=****** ... everything in emain ? ****** ... uthgard is also too aged to change way

Eleras wrote:yes and i hope we can find a way to to make it clearer, since there are about 20000 ways of fights.

I hope you can too. What I'll say at the end is, if you can't find a way to make it clearer, then you also can't punish people willy-nilly and expect them to not get very frustrated.

Also: Lemming's post = awesome.