Cruell wrote:This ban is wrong and it will cause nothing but trouble in the future for everyone because we as people wont let this unfairness go without a challenge. This ban can never be enforced fairly on others because the GM's would have to sit at AMG 24 hours a day and ban everyone that doesn't add on a fight. If the GM's don't do that then they show themselves to be liars and hypocrites.

Nobody of the GMs said you have to add anybody e.g. as holsten said running in circles or running away is allowed aswell

Cruell wrote:None of us want to see cheating and all of us support the GM's fully when they ban people for cheating. (except for the cheaters themselves)

But no one cheated here, this ban needs to be removed asap.

Guess the ban was not about cheating, more about rp trading or actually dueling.
To remove the ban your should (o lazy to quote but as always) write a PM to the Ban giver or to Nayru if you think the other GM did anything what is not right.

Cruell wrote:if you don't do the right thing and remove this ban, you are going to be very embarrassed in the future because we will do everything we can to show you how stupid this ban was and how you can not now or ever enforce rules such as this. Not without banning way more people then you ever intended to.

You should not take it personally and i would suggest not to menace Staff

Cruell wrote:EDIT:
I want to say that if this had happened at some out of the way spot like the zone wall near the RK in snowdonia . I would support the GM's fully. But not at AMG.

The zone of such actions should not matter...


PS: Your guildy should thank u a lot that you care so much about his ban, because he is himself still allowed to post in forums join irc etc

Gorim, be quiet unless spoken to woman

Gorim wrote:Guess the ban was not about cheating, more about rp trading or actually dueling.
To remove the ban your should (o lazy to quote but as always) write a PM to the Ban giver or to Nayru if you think the other GM did anything what is not right.

Well I guess you missed my other posts then Gorim, I have been trying to speak to GM's in IRC and he put +M so noone could speak. Then he just sent me the link to the ban page saying it was all explained there. I wasnt RP trading or duelling, I stopped to watch a fight while regen health and got banned + RP's stripped for it.

/Caz

Cruell wrote:EDIT:
I want to say that if this had happened at some out of the way spot like the zone wall near the RK in snowdonia . I would support the GM's fully. But not at AMG.

The zone of such actions should not matter...

PS: Your guildy should thank u a lot that you care so much about his ban, because he is himself still allowed to post in forums join irc etc [/quote]

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well you see the zone matters greatly. If these people had been caught in some very out of the way place then yes you could be sure it was an arranged duel and every one there was guilty.

BUT

since this was at AMG the busiest spot for RvR on the server there is no way what so ever you can be sure that everyone there was involved or that it was arranged or anything wrong was going on.
Its impossible. So to ban everyone is beyond absurd its blatantly stupid. In fact its stupid beyond normal intelligence. So the GM's are just banning people because they want to and it has nothing to do with breaking any rules or cheating or anything else.
The GM just decided to ban everyone and thats it.

Nothing fair about it at all.

Dear GM,

I wish to report that in Wilton, as a solo player I chose to not engage a fight for my own tactics as a free individual. I did see said fight, and I would have killed anything left had there been any, but I didn't. Perhaps I deserve a 5 day ban as well. Really, WTF are you thinking. Are you going to ban solo players for not taking on 8 man? Crazy thinking. Let people play the game. And by the way, staged 1v1 duel don't ever go down at AMG. Go drink a pint and fly your dragon somewhere else. If you keep up with this kind of ****** people will just leave your server and that would suck. Peace out.

Traes

IMHO if there is anything that looks like a staged duel thing in a busy RVR zone, say AMG emain for example, there should 1 (one) warning, that it looks like duelling and is a bannable action.
ANYWAYS if there is a rezzer rezzing ppls up as they continue to duel for 2-3 fights then there should be a ban of the actual duellers and the rezzers + rp strip for arranging duels, no matter the location. and maybe a minor ban to all those who watched for passively participating in arranged duels.
Just handing out an alround ban without further investigating is a pretty sad thing to do.

IMHO what i hear described had happened at AMG is not a staged duel but an occasional duel.


Greetings

So I guess it's everyone's respnsability to /callGM anytime they see a 1v1 or 2v2 or 8v8, so the gm can be certain no one was sitting around just watching the fair fight.

Waste of resources to me, but rules are rules.

Big Up to Force.

Let's /Callgm everytime we see 1v1 2v2 3v3 ecc with someone not adding

Wow, I see alot of people upset by this and based on the variations of stories i've read I can understand why. This is a tough nut to crack. On one hand you have a version of a story in which a guy medd'ing up on HP's got banned and lost 10k rp's for really doing nothing but being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I wasnt there so I have no clue what all happened here. I can say this, I've seen times that what was described happened and worked out great for everyone and I've seen it be done horribly wrong.

2 Examples:

1. Went out to emain probably 2-3 weeks ago on my ranger. There was 2-3 mids (1 stealther, 2 visi all solo), there was 2-3 albs (1 stealther, 1 friar, 1 other visi all solo), there was myself and another hib stealther there both solo. Started off with me fighting the mid stealther and then one of the visi mids showed up and didnt add and watched the fight. When I won the fight I went my own way and stealthed back up. At this point a alb stealther shows up and fights the visi mid. I was stealthed but didnt add since the mid didnt add my fight. The visi mid won. The solo visi friar shows up, I attack him and lose, but the mid doesnt add. Another Mid showed up and killed the friar. And so on and so on. Basically, nobody was rp farming, everyone was just respecting the 1 vs 1 policy since everyone was solo. It worked out great. You could fight and not worry about getting rolled from out of nowhere and if you won you moved on and healed up then came back and grabbed another. I dont see anything wrong with this way of playing since nobody was rez'ing the dead. If you died you had to release and run back out.

2. About 1 week after the above incident took place I went out to AMG solo on my ranger and there was 4 visible albs and 1 solo mid. The mid was Divin and 1 alb out of the 4 was fighting him while the other 3 watched. Divin beat the alb, and afterwards the albs rez’d the dead alb and they sat down and waited for Divin to heal up then another in the group “duel’d” him and this went on for awhile. Now, I cant stress this enough, I don’t really think this is fair or right, but I was ok with it since othewise it would have been 4 vs 1. Here is where I had a problem. I walked up to see if any stealthers were lurking around and sure enough there was a scout sitting behind the 3 albs that were not in combat. I decided I would fight the scout so I pulled back and shot the scout out of stealth and proceeded to fight him. I got 1 arrow and 2 mele hits before the 3 albs that were to “honorable” to add in divin’s 1 vs 1 fight, but had ZERO problem killing me as I tried to 1 vs 1 the scout. This I have a HUGE issue with.

Your right, the staff should not be able to dictate who and how you fight, but if you are going to play by these arbitrary ridiculous rules then please apply those rules to all. Its like listening to Holsten talk about his ideal 8 vs 8. Yah, DG uses one set of rules when fighting these guys, a different set of rules when fighting MB or BA, and then we basically kill zerg any solo stealthers….. COME ON MAN!!! Make up your mind w/ what rules you running with. I will play this game however the community wants, but stick w/ something and don’t pick and choose. Nothing wrong w/ people wanting to institute ways for solo’s to have more fun (see example 1) and another thing entirely when you want to use those rules for SOME players and not for others (see example 2).

Let me tell you this.
All those crap things like the lore and realms being in war with each other is non sense.
Technically this is a roleplaygame, but there is no roleplaying here, this is not D&D, therefore i should play the way i want, and only i should have to choose when attack someone and when not.
The rules that states that arranged duels and non adding in duels are forbidden can only be acceptable if we actually roleplayed our characters(cause realms are in war with each other).
Other way its just ridicolous.

RonELuvv wrote:
1. Went out to emain probably 2-3 weeks ago on my ranger. There was 2-3 mids (1 stealther, 2 visi all solo), there was 2-3 albs (1 stealther, 1 friar, 1 other visi all solo), there was myself and another hib stealther there both solo. Started off with me fighting the mid stealther and then one of the visi mids showed up and didnt add and watched the fight. When I won the fight I went my own way and stealthed back up. At this point a alb stealther shows up and fights the visi mid. I was stealthed but didnt add since the mid didnt add my fight. The visi mid won. The solo visi friar shows up, I attack him and lose, but the mid doesnt add. Another Mid showed up and killed the friar. And so on and so on. Basically, nobody was rp farming, everyone was just respecting the 1 vs 1 policy since everyone was solo. It worked out great. You could fight and not worry about getting rolled from out of nowhere and if you won you moved on and healed up then came back and grabbed another. I dont see anything wrong with this way of playing since nobody was rez'ing the dead. If you died you had to release and run back out.

But according to Gamemaster Trishin every single person at that place watching fights should be banned and punished. I have not been able to get a response from any other GM regarding this so I guess we have to assume this is fact.

Aye, Cazad, if everything happened the way you said it did then I feel for ya man, I would be irate if while I was watching this stuff going down I got banned just from being there. Now, I'm not saying your not telling the truth or your exagerating, but the fact is that I wasnt there, and I dont know for sure all the facts, but as I posted before, what you described has happened and does happen alot and I was not aware you could be banned for it either. I think that situations like that can be really good for the RvR's that dont play during primetime or people that want 1 vs 1's. However, as I also pointed out, its only "fair" if you apply those rules to all and not sit there and say its ok to 1 vs 1 this guy but zerg this other guy.... Also, I should point out that when we had the example of that going well, it was later ruined by 4 alb stealthers (3 from BA) that came and killed the 2 hibs and the 3 mids.

Well, from my point of view what happened was the following.

I logged on in APK. Started running towards AMG, once at AMG I see some fighting going on and notice it is a mid fighting a alb and there are 2 other albs not interfering with the fight so I decide to stop and watch as well. Briefly after another mid comes and starts fighting with one of the other albs, and at the same time I get mezzed by inc from behind.

I notice some alb stealther starting to fight the ones that mezzed me and I join in that fight, after mids are dead I turn back to AMG and see one of the 1v1 still going and a few other albs still in the area so I decide to regen my health under cover of my realm mates. Few seconds later I am in jail being told by GM Trishin I will be banned + RP stripped for just being there watching.

I later try to ask questions about this in IRC and he puts it on +m so noone can speak, after a while I get a message where he writes " It is all explained here " and gave me a link to the ban part of this forum where it sais I was banned etc.. I tried to explain but he just stated somehting like "You were there watching, that is enough"

I sent a PM to Blue here on the forum but still havent recieved any form of response so I guess adding or running away are the 2 choices we have now.

Cazad wrote:Well, from my point of view what happened was the following.

I logged on in APK. Started running towards AMG, once at AMG I see some fighting going on and notice it is a mid fighting a alb and there are 2 other albs not interfering with the fight so I decide to stop and watch as well. Briefly after another mid comes and starts fighting with one of the other albs, and at the same time I get mezzed by inc from behind.

I notice some alb stealther starting to fight the ones that mezzed me and I join in that fight, after mids are dead I turn back to AMG and see one of the 1v1 still going and a few other albs still in the area so I decide to regen my health under cover of my realm mates. Few seconds later I am in jail being told by GM Trishin I will be banned + RP stripped for just being there watching.

I later try to ask questions about this in IRC and he puts it on +m so noone can speak, after a while I get a message where he writes " It is all explained here " and gave me a link to the ban part of this forum where it sais I was banned etc.. I tried to explain but he just stated somehting like "You were there watching, that is enough"

I sent a PM to Blue here on the forum but still havent recieved any form of response so I guess adding or running away are the 2 choices we have now.

Sounds like in your case, they made a mistake but are unwilling to admit being wrong

RonELuvv wrote:Your right, the staff should not be able to dictate who and how you fight, but if you are going to play by these arbitrary ridiculous rules then please apply those rules to all. Its like listening to Holsten talk about his ideal 8 vs 8. Yah, DG uses one set of rules when fighting these guys, a different set of rules when fighting MB or BA, and then we basically kill zerg any solo stealthers….. COME ON MAN!!! Make up your mind w/ what rules you running with. I will play this game however the community wants, but stick w/ something and don’t pick and choose. Nothing wrong w/ people wanting to institute ways for solo’s to have more fun (see example 1) and another thing entirely when you want to use those rules for SOME players and not for others (see example 2).

No.

This has nothing to do with you, or what you take issue with, or who made you mad. People can still add you (or me, or anyone) if they want and no one can forbid them to. This is not some arbitrary fair play rule we're talking about, these are the basics of DAoC as a social MMO.

Everyone is free to act any way they want in RvR, unless they're exploiting. People are free to stand around enemies, and other people are free to kill/add/zerg/gank/grief those people that are standing around.

This isn't about fair vs unfair players, solos vs groups or visibles vs stealthers. This is about basic ingame player freedoms being taken away by the staff, and making an already questionable rule even more unclear and vague.


Also, I would very much like a reply from the staff on why they think banning players who stand around not adding _without a rezzer_ is ok, especially if this is taking place on AMG, the busiest RvR spot there is.