Assasins get DW mechanics on a server with no defense penetration, PA/BS dmg is bugged, and envenom seems to not apply a variance based on venom spec when venom is applied to enemy so looks like poison damage is too high as well.

So yes, assasins dmg is all boosted from bugs.

Vuvuzele is a high rank minstrel and gets a lot of horse route kills in Crauchon Gorge. I have nothing against that tactic either as I camp amg/mmg 90% of my time rvring, and during that time I've noticed that minstrels can be a potent opponent for my nightshade if they can kite effectively (and/or if my purge is down). Unfortunately most don't live through the PA, being low rank and all. But don't give up on that minstrel! They are great solo'ers and you'll learn to hold your own against assassins. Good luck

Play a assassin (without vip) and engage any shield speced tank with some point in parry, you can also have some 5to7 block/parry in a raw.

Ya tested this with my Paladin and... well 1st - you have to spec 42 shield + parry + moblock/moparry etc. while norse sb's have evade without skilling anything and still evade more than me block/parry

A rr3 paladin is able to block/parry more than i evade in a fight.

Wanna duel my RR4 Paladin again? We had like 2-3 fights and I always lost without any chance - stop QQing on such a high level

But well beside this the fact that weaponskill doesnt influnce your enemy's defence is a global problem that affects nearly every Class - not only Assasins or Shieldtanks. It's prolly also the reason why Clerics block like ****** etc. etc.

actualy topic on this thread was asasin heavy damge output ona clasic wise class item with nf ra system

first of all asasin on each realm goes for viper(reason for it is no variance on poisen damge no drop on poisen damge fom resistance(body mainly) and able to aply poisen over and over by switchign weapons many times as posible) ther should be a timer to reaply on same poisen on same people like stun mezz timers if remmbered correct

and due to this reason msot soloers goes for asasin class to kill for sure atack even f they die in 4 5 shots fom any kind fo tank clases as clasic wise server you cant get more then 200 hp 75 con cap on items so you hp lingers around 1300 1600 on the class you chose if not caster and even with tooughness ra you will get around 1500 1800 with bufs 1800 2000 margin and for assasin poisen damge a viper 2 asasin lifebane does 95 damge each 5 sec for 6 times so around 500 600 ish damge and with swticing weapon 3 times they get another 300 damge not mentioning weapon damge or procs
and ty can hit with haste dame add bufs around 2.3 2.6 sec with fast weapons 4 times each does around 100 main 50-70 of hand damge they do about 400+200/280 another 600 damge in 10 sec time not mentinong if they opne with pa (another 450 700 changes with af abs) so it is sure death if they open with pa
most people bother with melee mechanics on defensive measurers due to enemys they face for example on my friar if i face agaisnt a shiled tank(rr dosent mater) i have small chance to win vs warriors %10 max) vs thane %35 vs hero %35 vs warden %50 vs bm %50 if not sidestrafing and mainly %5 or 10 agsint champs on most defens mechanics blokc is the most buged one then comes evade and i can see that parry si teh only one working as intended or evn on low chances then normal values.
i fighted many times against stlhers of anykind and they evaded on a vlaue of 2/7 value on my anytimers rangers/hunters had less value then this evade is working fine i thnk but block is not once a shamn blokced my atacks 8 times in arow and 3 of them was fom behind when he endu sprinting(tacticaly retreating)
this is also another issue on atacking defending view points for behind atack it should be 120 degree and here dont nwo teh value on behind atack range

and another issue on view of atack reflexx atack not workign as intended yes it was abused on first tiems couse it was reacting to poisen damge or damge shiled damage as well but its atacking basis are buged for example if i am stuned i cant reflex it bakc says you are stuned so cant atack or if enemy is at my back it says enemy is out of view but reflex main issue was it supsed to atack anywhere anytime and no affected by those circumstances

why u all complain about assassins? is just their crit the problem... so if u can survive that u are still in the position to win. as heavy tank or as caster... and u know that there are many difference between a stealther good specced and many others. If a person understood how to get a super template with a super spec (like 50cs) and deals a super damage like 600+ on studded(mid)/plate(hib) for slash infi and on chain(mid) as pierc infi just think how to respec your toons instead to complain about stealth damages that is quite normal.
Ah Btw Blue.. My mentalist with crits hits for more than 850...
is this a Bug??
......

Have a nice day all and less complain and qq.. you all have to think how to play and dont talk about these childish things.
I eated more than 1PA+CD in my life...
I dont care about the damage that they deal.
I search the way to kill them anyway. and to humiliate them.

[TC]Essedum wrote:why u all complain about assassins? is just their crit the problem... so if u can survive that u are still in the position to win. as heavy tank or as caster... and u know that there are many difference between a stealther good specced and many others. If a person understood how to get a super template with a super spec (like 50cs) and deals a super damage like 600+ on studded(mid)/plate(hib) for slash infi and on chain(mid) as pierc infi just think how to respec your toons instead to complain about stealth damages that is quite normal.
Ah Btw Blue.. My mentalist with crits hits for more than 850...
is this a Bug??
......

Have a nice day all and less complain and qq.. you all have to think how to play and dont talk about these childish things.
I eated more than 1PA+CD in my life...
I dont care about the damage that they deal.
I search the way to kill them anyway. and to humiliate them.

Asking if it's a bug, getting the answer, and understanding that this CONFIRMED BY BLUE bug, IS game breaking for a lot of classes (beside stelathers ofc) <> complaining m8.

Imo the L2p argument in a game over 10y old, where a confirmed bug is....confirmed, is indeed childish.

Is like you go out playng soccer out with your friends, and 5/11 of them (actually 11/11 as it is now the stealther population in rvr) will play with both hands + feet and you can only use feet.....would that be fun?

As i stated before, i love this server, i love the staff and will be ever grateful for getting Uth Up.
And imo, for the love of the game, we should report anything that is not working as intended, that is ruining the fun of everyone, to get and always better game.

Nowadays in the evening uth is breaking the 1000 users (ive seen a peak of 1147 2 days ago), so...long live utghard!!!

Don't let nightshades PA you as a minstrel. Easier said than done maybe but you have to remember a pierce NS is pretty much the perfect counter to a minstrel and sometimes you will die before CD stun ends. When I played a minstrel I would twist and turn all the time while stealthed so it was really hard to land PAchain on me. That helped alot and let me win most fights against assassins.

Assassins are pretty strong here I guess with the weird settings.. New RAs, no toa, pets that don't chase stealthers, pet damage too low, defense penetration broken etc.

On the other hand, your minstrel will be insanely strong with old RAs + high realmrank. Get the active RAs (purge,sos,fa2+ip,avoid pain) and you are a killingmachine. Late SI days (the setting they are aiming for here) I probably had 90% winrate 1on1 without using a pet. A minstrel with a good pet is just too good, with a buffed frost stallion on live I destroyed 3man groups if I got the jump. It was so overpowered I stopped using the pets becouse I didn't get any satisfaction from winning with a horse tearing through people or a little fairy chainnuking them and healing me.

Umilard wrote:Don't let nightshades PA you as a minstrel. Easier said than done maybe but you have to remember a pierce NS is pretty much the perfect counter to a minstrel and sometimes you will die before CD stun ends. When I played a minstrel I would twist and turn all the time while stealthed so it was really hard to land PAchain on me. That helped alot and let me win most fights against assassins.

Assassins are pretty strong here I guess with the weird settings.. New RAs, no toa, pets that don't chase stealthers, pet damage too low, defense penetration broken etc.

On the other hand, your minstrel will be insanely strong with old RAs + high realmrank. Get the active RAs (purge,sos,fa2+ip,avoid pain) and you are a killingmachine. Late SI days (the setting they are aiming for here) I probably had 90% winrate 1on1 without using a pet. A minstrel with a good pet is just too good, with a buffed frost stallion on live I destroyed 3man groups if I got the jump. It was so overpowered I stopped using the pets becouse I didn't get any satisfaction from winning with a horse tearing through people or a little fairy chainnuking them and healing me.

Insanely strong... sure!
That's why, in preparation of that, you see taht HUGE amount of minstrels around waiting to kill you in 3-4 shots...

Please.....

I dont know where you see the problem. PA+CD+Viper3+st/con debuff are more than 1400 damage. If he has 1370 hp, and he run wthout buffs, i dont see any problem.

tonhl wrote:Hi ramboz!
I dont run barrels all the time, when i run barrels the shots are 5 (doesnt really change a lot) so i just go without sometimes.
And i agree with you, i surely do something wrong, and i can surely improve my playstyle
Regarding the hig RR solo minstrels, personally i don't see so many solo minstrels out (in fact i see zero of them),and i dont see a lot of minstrels spam out in emain, the only one of them who are out are grped with infils and cope (well) will them, or grped with a nromal grp.
I personally also never saw a single minstrel solo fight on utghard against a stealthers, the only one i saw was stna that got 4-shotted by a luri NS at amg.
And looking at lwrp there aren't a lot of hig rr minstrels, instead acoording to herald the more hig rr minstrels are mostly inactive.
I agree also with you, with that bug in place, an high rr stelather can easily kill anything on uthgard.

Btw my post was simply a question, i love daoc like everyone here is, is a matter of making this game fun for everyone, if a bug makes it too "unfun" is bad for everyone, even for the ones that abuses it, because that will lead to disaffection, boringess etc. etc.

That simple as it is

Btw thanks everyone for the answers!

Cya in game!

1. use ablative charge from one of the moran cloaks.. at least in areas, where u exspect enemie stealthers = 150 dmg less when u get hit by pa
2. spec little points in toughness... toughness 3 = 150 more hitpoints
3. use pots for hitpoints.. base con, might pot ( and try to get the str/con charge one day)
4. train ur reaction.. in areas where u exspect assins u should be fast with ur stun shout + dds
5. when ur opponent use purge on ur stun, u could react with sos (sos1 is enough for solo mins), turn after some metres and mezz after. then u should have time to reg with healpot/charge and fa maybe. Only one example how u can react when fighting assins. just try out some tactics. it depends on the special situation and ur playstyle which is the best one.
6. for sure u need ip, if possible ip2 -> with 5L0 i would spec: sos1, ip2, purge1, fa1, tough2, mof2, aug con1 ( or wp1, mop1, mom1 as u like ;D), lw1

its not a miracle to win vs assins, when u get paed before. Its doable.
Greez
Elrill

zenobya wrote:first of all asasin on each realm goes for viper(reason for it is no variance on poisen damge no drop on poisen damge fom resistance(body mainly) and able to aply poisen over and over by switchign weapons many times as posible) ther should be a timer to reaply on same poisen on same people like stun mezz timers if remmbered correct

Doubt it was that way on live. Why should it be here?

tonhl wrote:Ok so is a confirmed bug.
That's good to hear!

Any eat to fix it? Cause atm is destroyng the fun of "tryng" to go out and solo.

Becasue the equation : You play a stealther = you win no matter what= no skill involved = no fun
Can't last long on game!

This thread is entertaining .... but back to the topic.

Regarding PA damage: Compared with my live experience from "back in the old days", PA damage here is not affected by ABS/AF and always hits for a fixed value only influenced by CritStrike spec and resists. But that "cap" damage is lower than it was on live. So in average the damage is livelike, on heavy armor it is probably a bit too high while on light armor it is probably a bit too low, compared to live.
(And no, I don't have "proof", and I don't care to find, I'm just telling so you can get a picture of what's the difference to live.)

Regarding your above statement: By saying it destroys "the" fun you are probably talking about your fun If you get hit by the full PA chain as a minstrel you should not win, it's as simple as that. First of all, landing a PA always** requires a certain amount of skill. And on Uthgard its even easier to avoid getting PAed because "target not in sight/range" occurs more often than on live. If you don't want to get PAed ask Haals how he does avoid it
And if you still get PAed (so your skill failed for the first time) then you can insta/stun your target, or SoS for example to prevent the stun from hitting you. If you can't manage that your skill failed for the 2nd time, and the consequence is you die.
So your "equation" is sort of flawed

By the way if you want to know how Haals walks google for "brownian motion" or just look at the following picture from Wikipedia:



** There are only 3 situations when you can land a PA without much skill. 1. Your target is auto-running straight all the way (fail on his side). 2. Your target is AFK (fail on his side) 3. Your target is CCed (which usually only works for alb stealthers - yeah you are the only stealther with instant-CC and mezz )

Is nice to see that:
Who plays ns,infil,sb comes with "proofs" that is all ok
Who get the other end of the thing, did investigation and BLUE (the admin, and creator of the server) admitted that stelather dmg is broken.

So, IF the CREATOR of the server, says that IS broken......on wich argument you can counter his affermation?
I cannot understand that really!

Btw thanks to everyone for their toughts and for the suggestions, tactics, etc.

Didn't I point out that I don't have "proof"?

Further, I do (and did) agree that is not livelike. So the implementation different from live. So you can call it broken.

That is a different connotation of "broken" than saying "OMG its broken it's doing waaaay too much dmg and destroys my fun." (I'm exaggerating here, just for the record).

So all I'm saying is, if the implementation gets fixed (which I, too, would appreciate, but to fix you need a lot of information, testing, etc....) you might not see a big difference in dmg on your minstrel. Or in other words, fixing the PA formula might not solve the "Problem" you described in your first post.

I dont agree with you shade.
If that will be fixed, not only the dmg on "my" minstrel (as you point like the problem was only mine, but again, is a bug that affects everyone here) would be much less (we noty speaking only about PA dmg, but poison, growing rates, etc.) but also on all other classes, and thus everyone would have much more chanches to win againts a stelather like is not now (and like it was on live).
I would personally get bored soon of a class that can win 90% of the fitghs with minor to zero efforts, simply because is dmg is broken by a bug in place.
Is like playng soccer with 8yold and celebrate if you win over them....i mean... meehh..

That's my point of view ofc!