Sorry for the length of the below post. I have a tendancy to ramble on, but this time the length is used to show an in depth look at things on this topic. Sorry again:

I wanted to comment on the thread that was closed by roflcopter. I have posted on this in the past and am asking again for suggestions or comments on this matter for stealthers from all realms. I have said multiple times in threads and even posted topics on it before, I played on live classic from inception thru ToA and quit on live right after Catacombs came out on my ranger. I have played ranger ALOT on both classic settings of RA's and on the new RA's. The truth of the matter is neither one had it right for how to deal with stealth detection.

On classic RA's, assasin OWNED the stealther war's. There was nothing a ranged stealther could do to them except run in groups of 3 to 4 and either A) take turns popping truesight or B) wait till an assasin popped one of the ranged stealthers in ur group then add. That was all you could do. You had no way of seeing an assasin till he was on top of you and the assasin could see you from a mile away if your camo was down. This forced (and I can only speak for rangers on this) the ranged stealthers to focus away from anywhere assasins could be and to focus instead on casters, healers, and non shield toting tanks. I was amazed at how many rangers ran with less then 50 composite stealth, but after talking to many of them I realised why they did this. Why spec high stealth if it makes ZERO difference on finding other stealthers. At 50 composite stealther (including +'s) you would still not see an assasin till he was on top of you, so their thought on it were spec less stealth so you can do more dmg to non stealthers. It made sense to me after that. Basically, classic RA’s = death to all ranged stealthers, or you are going to force them to group together in order to be effective. If you think people complained about stealth zergs before, just wait and see.

On new RA’s, ranged stealthers get one hell of an advantage against assasins with high MoS. Yes, assasins also get access to that ability, but seeing a ranger at 500 units away while he is pulling his bow back doesn’t really do you much good. Most assasins I talk to go with MoS 2 or 3 along with their detect hidden so they can see ranged stealther at enough of a distance to attack. Being able to see further does nothing to help them in battle, other then maybe helping them avoid a ranged stealther if he’s not paying attention. Ranged stealthers get a nice ability that allows them to negate ALL detect hiddens (including MoS) which gives them even a better advantage. Now a ranged stealther with MoS 4 or 5 and camo up can ruin an assasins day very quickly. Basically with the current RA settings you have the scales tipped in favor of ranged stealthers rather then assasins.

What I propose is a hybrid mix of the 2 systems. Why should assasins OR ranged stealthers have advantages over each other in the stealth war if you both spec stealth? My advice would be to keep MoS the way it is. Get rid of detect hidden ability for assasins and replace it with camo exactly like ranged stealthers have. By doing this ALL stealther (except minstril) will have the exact same factors to determine when you can see another stealther. You would have your composite stealth spec, your MoS spec, and then if you have camo up or not. No more of this favoring one type of stealther over the other issue that you have with each of the RA settings.

I realise that this is a classic server and that would certainly be a custom setting, but I 100% believe it would be a custom change for the betterment of all stealthers. Lets be honest, this is NOT a classic server, but it is rooted in trying to be what DAOC was back in the classic days. Several aspects of this server deviate from the classic setting. I will not list them all, since they have been listed many times in the past. I am just trying to show a change that would truly make stealth detection fair for all and make the stealther community as a whole a much better place.

Please comment your ideas and thought s below, and please refrain from making this into a nerf, flame, complaint thread. Focus STRICTLY on stealth detection issue. I have done this in the past and got almost no response. When this change happens you will see a lot of people complaining, so please look at this now why we still can talk about it and hopefully get the GM’s to see our view on this.

I totally agree with you. Hopefully this thread will allowed to be a constructive discussion thread even if this is only a pipe dream. Nice to also see someone with a mind for balance. Most archers want to keep it they way they have it now just like most assassins wanted to keep it the way they had it when the situation was reversed.

Great post and great idea though. And btw you're a good player

i can tell you just this: it will never happen

yes its a nice idea but if u want make it fair u have to give assasins ip back and ap to sb/infi with old ra´s , but this rly wont happen.

so in the change of old ra´s archers will have the advantage of ap and ip to have a (small) chance to win against assasins.

my point is : all or nothing, and i think this is how uth staff thinks also about the concept of ´´classik-livelike´´.
true there are many bugs and customized things which make it to a custom - wannabe livelike- classic shard but the staff just want to give us the feeling of a classik daoc setting.

in my opinion old ra´s and OF is the wrong way, but if the staff decided to make it (and pushed hours of work in it) then we will have to live with it.

mfg -l- Edgtho -l-

I think the current RA system in general is better then OF RAs in general with some tweaking of course (WTB Dodger back! ) but I disagree that assassins should get IP back to make it fair (I'm an inf btw). Giving assassins IP would be so over the top it would be stupid. They were SUPPOSED to be the premiere 1v1 class but giving them IP would allow them to very easily destroy any class in the game 1v1 without even having to think about it. As it stands a smart assassin can kill almost anyone just by kiting but giving IP would just allow noobs to flourish more without having to put any thought into their playstyle.

Hopefully the staff won't go to OF RAs vs NF RAs but rather will modify things to create a hybrid of the two for the sake of balance. I personally liked classic DAoC more then post-ToA DAoC but will also be the first to admit that classic RAs dont necessarily make the most balanced or most fun RAs for everyone. Hybrids without det is a perfect example. NF they have det, OF they don't hence why I believe the RA system should be a custom hybrid of the two.

Edit: And btw I understand you weren't actually saying assassins should get IP back for real you were just drawing a comparison for the sake of old RA discussion

In the current system, rangers do have an advantage with camo and high enough MoS (3 or higher) for bow attacks. But your forgetting that as soon as that archer sneezes, he is vulnerable for 10 min. This is a big problem for someone alone or small grp. It would be like if your detect hidden was deactivated after any kind of an attack, and while its turned off, your vulnerable to other assassins from seeing you, while you may not see them coming. But that isnt the case, as it is a passive skill and never gets deactivated.

If your worried about an archer, vanish when he shoots you and get some distance, heal pot, first aid. Meaning you should get higher then vanish one to get away. Then come back within 10min and he will be easliy visable. You can also use a charge to intrupt if you see him in stealth, so he doesnt shoot you. But if your greedy for that PA, you deserve a Critshot to the face. And also remember a Critshot has a 20% chance to destealth them, so you may get lucky. It does happen. And if you spec for MoS2 or 3 that is your fault. Some archers spec for much higher MoS and the pay for it, its not free.

Not all, but geez many assassins on this server are real whiners. What do they expect, to be the one and only class to be allowed to kill all and never die. Sure seem to act like it.

i want the classic way. maybe im biased but to me it makes sense for the project too. i am very excited for this since i dont play hunter

TL;DR

Seriously, WTF is up with all these walls of text, state your point so other people than forum warriors actually read and comment on it..

Trishin wrote:Ain't going to happen

Closed

No need to open more threads with the same suggestion and "hiding" it in a wall of text