_Oglop_ wrote:

_Oglop_ wrote:Old RA's would suit this server better.

New RA's fit live because there are ToA bonuses to take the place of some of the old RA's...
Such as Casting Speed on ToA, there was no need for MotA... Mastery of the Arts will significantly help casters/support on this server.

As for the 30minute RA timer and all the silly RA's that will be leaving... RvR should be better. Hopefully players will strategically use their abilities in fights rather than RA dumping to win... Players wont be so careless with that timer implemented ^^

Determination removed from Hybrids should make heavy tanks more sought out for as they can be the ones to shake CC a bit. Why should a hybrid get it all and take the place of a heavy tank? Cant have the best of both worlds defensivly and offensively.

Well as you know full tanks still have better determ with stoicism etc, so that arguement is invalid..

I see your point with MotA and that is imo one of the RA's that should be added to NF.. my point is though that NF RA's are much easier to "fix" than Old RA's are, since old RA's have some fundemental flaws and NF RA's is a much more solid system that doesn't need as much work..

I agree that the 30min timer is just my personal opinion and that it might be hard to reduce to implement unless the NF RA versions on the abilities are kept as they are..

On the stealth issue though Old RA's will be so game breaking that it will force people to zerg even more than they do already to stay alive, Assasins will benefit greatly from it and all other stealthers will suffer.. MoS is such a balanced ability the old See Hidden RA was just rediculous permanent seeing other stealthers from miles away..

Braxis wrote:

Breeze wrote:

Force wrote:Staff already announced Old RAs are not coming any time soon so why even discuss it at this point?

I know, but they still haven't said they scrapped it totally, personally I hope they never come as do many others..
There is way less changes that is needed to make NF ra's good than there are with OF.. OF RA's will take way more work to balance..

True.

Like implementing nf mota and removing: viper, pd&ip from archers, cc immunity from charge, and you're 90% done imo.

I totally agree with this one, maybe except removing IP as archers will already lose a lot by scrapping PD (Again I do not play my ranger, but imo they would just be wayy too easy targets without IP and contrary to many others I actually like balance even for my enemies )

Breeze wrote:I agree that the 30min timer is just my personal opinion and that it might be hard to reduce to implement unless the NF RA versions on the abilities are kept as they are..

We should really put out shoes in the places of those ppl who have tough time consuming jobs, families, AND want to play daoc.

These casual players who don't have more then an hour to play each day would use their expensive timer'd RA's what 2 (two) times per their average session?

And that's not counting the other time sinks which make it impossible to just log and join the action...

And these arguments like dumping every RA at inc...really not every person plays like that...usually noob grps do that.

Play skills is not something that can be changed by changing RA's from NF to OF.

I began on Uthgard because of Old Frontier and announced Old RA's.
But the more I play the more I get the feeling that Old RA will just ruin the whole small men.
At the moment the mass of minstrel is a plague and annoying. But with old RA's we will just see 3x of the minstrel teams we have atm, because of SoS as the I win RA + 4-8 single mezz spamers. Just grp up with 4-8 minstrel and that's it. You can check Wächter der Macht LWRP as one example.

I agree with all points you mentioned Nag , if anyone remembers the time on live .. new ra's were implemented because the old ones were just too unbalanced. Hybrids like reaver,vw,champ ... will be totally useless in grps as already said and the stealth detection system works very good at the moment.

There will be lots of 8v8 which will be an auto loss because of a well set surprised mezz or nearsight whatever which will be alot more frustrating and longer timers on Ra's will slow down the action because people will wait until their actives are up again.

There are some thing i'd change about the new ra's (e.g the lack of balance with viper3 and so on) - and since the servers has ALOT of custom changes already - some more would just improve the fun for almost everyone.

But everyone who says old ra's are more balanced than new ra's has never played with them.

Nef Melody wrote:I agree with all points you mentioned Nag , if anyone remembers the time on live .. new ra's were implemented because the old ones were just too unbalanced. Hybrids like reaver,vw,champ ... will be totally useless in grps as already said and the stealth detection system works very good at the moment.

There will be lots of 8v8 which will be an auto loss because of a well set surprised mezz or nearsight whatever which will be alot more frustrating and longer timers on Ra's will slow down the action because people will wait until their actives are up again.

There are some thing i'd change about the new ra's (e.g the lack of balance with viper3 and so on) - and since the servers has ALOT of custom changes already - some more would just improve the fun for almost everyone.

But everyone who says old ra's are more balanced than new ra's has never played with them.

I just hope GM's will read all this and realize that none of the systems works 100% perfectly but if you'd have to pick one it would be NF RA's, and if they really care about balancing they should try to listen to some of the suggestions of players for balancing NF RA's imo.. It will require much less work and it's actually realistic within a much shorter time frame..
First off even implementing vanilla Old RA's seems to literally take years and then comes the balancing after and the balance issues Old RA's bring are much worse and much less acceptable than the ones we have atm..

People who argue that Old RA's brings balance to the game clearly haven't thought their arguements through and as you said haven't played with them..

Imo it is possible to make a supirior system with NF RA's as a base model that will satisfy the largest % of people on Uth, it will NEVER be possible to make everyone 100% happy but I'm totally confident that this is the way to get the largest % of satisfied players..

qq we cant live without purge3 qq!

Oswaldo wrote:qq we cant live without purge3 qq!

Yeah that's exactly what my point is! (I don't have purge 3 on any of my chars )

lies

Purge 3 most important RA in NF for almost all classes w/o Det. Sad but true

Both old and new RAs are imbalanced on Uthgard. Both need customisation.

Uthgard strives to be a classic server -> work with old RAs. Plain and simple.

OF+Old RA or NF+new RA dont mix the both ! thats all.

Current situation just give an insane unskilled dumping on each fight.

What does RA system have to do with FZ? New RA were working a long time with Old FZ as well

Zarkor wrote:Both old and new RAs are imbalanced on Uthgard. Both need customisation.

Uthgard strives to be a classic server -> work with old RAs. Plain and simple.

Then the question becomes, what do the ppl (yes the ppl, because without them there is no server) want more?

A balanced and playable RA system, or OF RA's?

Not talking about the maps here.

Braxis wrote:A balanced and playable RA system, or OF RA's?

That question shows just a wee bit of bais..

How about "A balanced and playable RA system, REGARDLESS of whether they are the Old or New ruleset?"