Nymeros if you still not understand that Uthgard was always plagued with constant whines I cant help you. I lived through all that and at some point in time this will get demotivating for sure. Let us complete OF and stop whining about it when its in a raw state! That just does make no sense. The same story we see with OF have we seen when NF/Agramon was introduced but even way worse as you couldnt find your enemies.

Nymeros wrote:Edit2: And what double morals? I myself voted for OF. Many of us have said they want to change their votes, because they saw what a failure OF really is. Is it double morals to change your mind and admit you are wrong, or to stubbornly remain wrong forever?

How can you talk about no double moral? If you know how OF worked on live and wanted it you should see that our OF is still away from live like OF. How would anybody vote for OF without knowing it, giving up NF keeps?

And interesting that you voted for OF and at the same time you say the vote was manipulated /clap

You could find them because of the kill messages and realm info by other players, just like today. Plus the warmap.

And as I've already said: no one is asking you guys to drop all you're doing and bring back NF the same second. That is unrealistic. If you somehow manage to fix OF, I will be the first to enjoy playing there.

But please keep an open mind to an alternative that was proven to work, IF and only if these new changes prove to be ineffective.


Edit: As far I remember I said I'm not interested in conspiracy theories. I do however know that the vote was easy to manipulate, as do you, and that every time the vote got near 50%-50% there was suddenly about 10-30 new votes for OF. You can read all about it in the poll topic, and I wasn't the only one to notice this.

I will always keep an open mind. But dont forget that Uthgard targets classic times. Not NF, not ToA.

Let me give another crazy quote about Agra:

Weia wrote:

DrunkSooner wrote:...
2. Close one mile gate per realm preventing travel from either direction.
3. Make the PK the 3rd tower or closest tower to the beno/crouch/bled.
...

Just read this, and really, combining 2. and 3. already results in an elegant and simple way to help with some of the more annoying problems:

Close one milegate by placing porterkeep Realmguards all over the wall.
Then add a porter NPC to each borderkeep that allows porting to the room above that wallgate.
This results in only one chokepoint per realm for stealther/solo-action, and a agramon traveltime reduction all in one.

Might even be worth thinking about letting each realm not own the wall closest to it's realm, but switch them around, to reduce traveltime
even further.

I replay all these previous posts and threads so that you can get a view how difficult it gets to lead such a server which is designed to be a standard DAoC server without screwing all up. If we would want that we could also create a completely custom instant server. But that is not Uthgard.

OK. For now I'm back to code. Just wanted to reflect a thing here and there.

Ok, let's drop this for now. Just a few closing remarks.

The design 'as is' has issues, we know that. Some of which you hope to address in the near future. But you really, really need to think about ways to remove timesinks from RvR if you want to get more people out into the FZ. Here I am especially thinking about the recently introduced rezz-sickness related reduction of the buff-concentration-pool. Why was that done? I mean, I know it's live like, but come one, this serves no purpose other than slowing things down. Now, after a wipe not only do you have to port back or run back to Emain (5mins?), no, you also have to sit around first and wait for rezz-sickness to go away. This is extremely counter-productive tbh.

And finally, while we all appreciate the staffs' effort (we really do), OF has been in it's current 'broken' (live-like ^^) state for how long? A year? At some point a decision has to be made - can it be fixed in a reasonable amount of time? If not, maybe it would be better to revert to another implementation that also happens to have had more 'potential' to appeal to a broader audience (game-play wise). Ok, am done now...

Oh yeah I voted for OF. For two reasons: a) For Uthgard to be like the old times b) Because I thought it would generate a big influx of players to RvR.

Changing my opinion is no double moral. I can understand that to you, Blue, it comes across as that the community will always complain no matter what you decide, true to some extent, but I see it as a good thing we tried and experienced it. Our conclusions on the success of it are just different.
You say NF never worked? See how many freeshards have risen and fallen over the years. Uthgard established itself from scratch with NF Braemar->NF Emain->Agramon. If it never worked the server wouldn't have gone from 0 to 500 players (I believe it was 5-600 players at primetime at the last weeks/months before old frontiers) which for a freeshard is the hardest part. OF brought in some extra people but you discredit the system that established your server. A lot of the people, not all, in RvR today are people that played here years ago, me included.

I don't understand Blue's dislike for NF/Agramon. It was a good design that the staff developed for Uthgard. The reason it was good is because it encouraged real, complete RvR. Not just 8v8 roaming Emain or stealthers camping a milegate. The teleport system meant that players had a reason to defend and retake their keeps. Not only for control of DF, but to have teleport access to Agramon.

That kind of real RvR has been eliminated from the server with OF.

Define RvR?
1 v 1 is RvR
8 vs 8 is RvR
16 v 16 is RvR..

How is that any different from PvP in other games?