Didn't Mythic shut down the GOA servers around the same time you implemented OF?

Seyha wrote:Didn't Mythic shut down the GOA servers around the same time you implemented OF?

Which coincidentally, didn't those GOA servers that shut down have NF?

Zyviel wrote:There are servers that have NF if you want to play in NF so bad. Mythic has them and also Brotherland. I have played in both OF and NF and I prefer OF. Apparently so do many other players since Uthgard has the highest population on Portal.

pls more ppl that joined 2011 u never get over 4L2 so pls shut up and thats the truth

if ure all so happy with old frontiers where the hell are you coming out with random zerg once a year ??

Blue wrote:

Nymeros wrote:Most of Uthgard's population is here thanks to NF (which was here much longer than OF). Now please kindly GTFO with telling people where to play or not play.

Wrong. The ramp up in population was with introduction of OF. The falloff because its not complete. You praise NF as when it always was good. You simply forget that this was not the case. For you propably NF = Agramon.

That's just not correct Blue. Please re-read what I wrote: MOST of Uthgard's population is here thanks to NF. Most guilds are here thanks to NF, most raid leaders, zerg leaders, Dragon and Legion raid leaders... Uthgard is what it is with absolutely no thanks to OF. I'm not even talking about the falloff of new OF-drawn players, but about the core community.

Blue wrote:Don't you remember when we had the standard port system that all players QQed about having to run the last way to Agramon? Even after introduction of a horse route for the last part to Agramon it took no end. The only way NF is able to survive on Uthgard is with instant teleports directly to the borders of Agramon => BG. NF does work worse for Uthgards population than OF will do. And we dont speak about a BG solution but live like NF.

I remember the QQ, most of which was stealther QQ and which was not objective. Now you have solo QQ, stealther QQ, zerg QQ, 8man QQ, keep fight QQ... is there even anyone left to QQ? I'm not saying NF was perfect (almost no one who is in favor of NF here on the forums is saying that), but it was immeasurably better then the current system. You can't just say "well you also had QQ back then" to make it sound like it was as bad as this is. You will have QQ and whines in every single setting you can imagine. What makes the difference is the sheer scale of the objections and arguments that are presented.

And you're 100% right: You have to have custom NF for it to work on Uthgard. But you also need custom OF, as you yourself (the staff) are proving by all these announced changes.

So my question still stands: What if these OF changes don't work? A lvl 50 BG is just a tag you put on something you want to discredit. I call it a "balanced, fun and casual friendly playing environment". Just like someone will scream that Uthgard is OMG CUSTOM and you will take offence at that because it's clearly not taking the whole picture into account.

You make NF shine better than it was. QQ came from all type of players. The same endless discussions we do now existed all for NF.

OF is still the better solution for Uthgard as NF had not the power to work with lower player amounts. OF scales good with lower player numbers as the main hotspot stays in Emain. And again, I dont mean the Agramon BG at the end. That was not NF as it is on live and what you praise to heaven.

Nymeros wrote:Uthgard is what it is with absolutely no thanks to OF.

You ignore that players started on Uthgard because of Old Frontiers and the classic feeling. OF was very popular on live and there are many good memories on it attached. You underestimate that.

I am here thanks to OF and I am not the only one.

Same for me , i came when they told about OF .

Blue wrote:You make NF shine better than it was. QQ came from all type of players. The same endless discussions we do now existed all for NF.

OF is still the better solution for Uthgard as NF had not the power to work with lower player amounts. OF scales good with lower player numbers as the main hotspot stays in Emain. And again, I dont mean the Agramon BG at the end. That was not NF as it is on live and what you praise to heaven.

There was never this much QQ related directly to map design. After all, the posts are all still here on the forums, and I'm pretty damn sure if we do a search and compare the results that we'll find that OF has a much larger amount of VALID player complaints.

Blue wrote:You ignore that players started on Uthgard because of Old Frontiers and the classic feeling. OF was very popular on live and there are many good memories on it attached. You underestimate that.

I don't ignore anything, I am simply putting things into perspective. What you got with OF was a bunch of players who spiked the population when it was announced, and then a large number of them either left or has gone semi-active at best. Most of the people actively RvRing on this server have been here before OF, and this counts for both groups and soloers. Not to mention how many old RvR-active players stopped playing because of OF.

And as far as these "good memories" go - nostalgia can only get you so far. I sometimes watch a movie or a cartoon I liked as a kid just to remind myself how it was, or even play a game on Super Nintendo or whatever. But this is a MMO, you play it day after day after day, and the surest way to ruin a good memory is to try and pretend that nothing has changed, both for you and for other people.

You can either have a server someone will log on to every few years when he/she remembers the good times they had in DAoC, maybe plays for a month or two or three and then goes away after they had their fill of nostalgic memories, or you can have a live, vibrant server that has it's principles, isn't "insta", "easy mode" or whatever, is as Classic as it's reasonably possible - with a healthy endgame that actually rewards playing with *fun*. Fun memories != fun, they're just what the word says - memories. The choice is yours, and IMO so far you're not making the right one. I just hope you will reconsider your view of this IF the new OF improvements fail, and that's all I have to say really.

Nymeros why dont you go play live if you want NF with new ra's?

while we are at it why not implent toa then and darkness rising

I love how every argument in favor of OF amounts to "because its OF."

Its like arguing with religious fanatics.

Oswaldo wrote:Nymeros why dont you go play live if you want NF with new ra's?

while we are at it why not implent toa then and darkness rising

If you like Old RAs Old OF why don't we just go back to the very first patch?

You know, I still have trouble seeing the advantages of OF over NF. I mean from a very basic gameplay perspective. I think I did my best to make that point throughout this post.

Imho, there are two things that factor in here.

1) Nostalgia.
Nostalgia is a nice thing, it made me excited about the switch to OF. But that does not translate into great game play. For me, that honey moon period is long over and I am very underwhelmed by the outcome. Running the same route every night to look for inc is only interesting for so long. I have long stopped raiding keeps (not even mentioning defending) because it just bores me to tears in OF.

2) Population increase
This is a very common argument pro OF. However, it does not in anyway explains what it is about OF that is 'better' than NF (see point above) and also is a very difficult statement to back up. To illustrate:


There are other potential factors that may have contributed to a population increase. The live servers are slowly dying now, EU DAoC reverted back to the US, the OF announcement created a lot of interest on the interwebz, etc etc. It does NOT proof that OF is a great concept and everybody simply loves it. That is not what active players see in the FZ, imho.

Why am I bothering arguing? I think everyone playing here gets in some way invested into the server and its community. I personally fear that the current path will slowly erode the RvR-active player base and by the time that really hits, it will be too late. I think we are already seeing the effects of that, with so many players preferring the (NF) BGs over the actual grown-up RvR, the complete lack of 'random Zerg' and the small number of active 8vs8 groups.

I think what you guys, the staff, need to do is get back in touch with your community. One really good way of doing this is to have an in-game questionnaire or at least an announcement ingame to check the website for said questionnaire. Just so that you get a good reading on how your players tick these days.

Lastard we have a pretty good feeling of what is going on within the community. However we do not turn 180 and jump the bandwagon as easy as players do.

We are used to getting complains about how bad things are 24/7, we listen to them. However we know in our heart and mind which one are legit and which are simply the bandwagon talking.

As I said in a previous post: If you wan't things changed and to discuss with real arguments (not some fancy forum troll arguments) then take direct contact with me or someone else from the staff. The forum is not an ideal place for discussing issues with the server as most will get lost in trolling and flames from players who disagree.

Seyha wrote:Didn't Mythic shut down the GOA servers around the same time you implemented OF?

the "GOA" server are still running - but hosted by mythic instead of GOA...

Trishin wrote:As I said in a previous post: If you wan't things changed and to discuss with real arguments (not some fancy forum troll arguments) [...]

If this is what this debate boils down to to you, than I really don't know what else to say.