jaaro wrote:no PoC bad news so which one of dungeons will be RvR one then ?

all of them.

oh nice ty for answer my question ^^

Zarkor wrote:Can we please also have the Str/C charge put on an easier mob to prevent it from being the one ubercharge? Perhaps in the new RvR dungeons?

Limiting buffs but keeping the Str/C charges on stupidly hard to kill mobs is only worsening that problem, driving the prices even higher...

This.

Zarkor wrote:Can we please also have the Str/C charge put on an easier mob to prevent it from being the one ubercharge? Perhaps in the new RvR dungeons?

Limiting buffs but keeping the Str/C charges on stupidly hard to kill mobs is only worsening that problem, driving the prices even higher...

Probably gonna drop from Legion, since they wanna pimp his loot.
If it would drop in RvR dungeons we can wait at least 3 month for this to happen, so better take Legion =)

It already drops from Legion.

Nymeros wrote:It already drops from Legion.

Ah ok nice to know hehe, maybe drop rate gonna get pimped we will see =)

Im quite impressed with these news, especially with making RvR zones more attractive and the side note on SI...

"Also we will work on a dynamic port timer system which influence the port timer according to how many keeps your realm owns. This should also improve the desire for taking keeps. How much it will influence the port timer is an unknown as of now. "

I smiled

Great work GM's just keep it up !

Trishin wrote:Buff barrel / charges

In future buffs will be limited to 2 max at a time. We could write a huge essay of why this will be done, however to keep it simple we felt this was needed to be on par with our no buffbot policy. Players who do not have buffs should not run full buffed (or close to) without grouping a character with buffs.

Hey there - I know there's a lot of "omg, this will boost ranger population" and what I suggest now will add to this even more, but as I don't play and don't intend to play a ranger or any other class like that, I won't care for that...here we go:

I hope that you will also consider duration-based buffs like aoe-buffs or casted dmg add/haste as "charges" or something like that...otherwise ppl will start using buffbots again (logging them in tks or mgs and getting them out now and then to rebuff) or maybe grps of players like duos/trios without buffing-class will share one of these bots and log them in now and then, as to avoid notice by the staff...

anyway: players begging more for buffs from other players will have a major advantage then (by having 4+ buffs instead of only 2) and this will have even more influence than it has now (where aoe buffs are merely a little better than pots)...

solution?

either make duration-based buffs range-bound like normal buffs (as to keep them useful in grps with too few buffing classes, so that a cleric for example can buff base-buffs conc-based and specs using aoes) or put the same limit of 2 total buffs on these as well (so that some1 can either have 2 pots/charges, 1 pot/charge + 1 duration-based player-buff (aoe-buffs, haste/dmgadd) or 2 duration-based player-buffs)

oh and btw:

Trishin wrote:Will be counted in the buff limit(only from barrels and charges, procs won't be influenced)

Dex: yes
Str: yes
Con: yes
AF: yes
Dex/qui: yes
Str/con: yes
Haste: yes
Acuity: yes

Ablative charges: maybe

POM: No
HOT: No
End regen: No
DMG shields: No
DMG adds: No

Please let me know if I forgot any

why is haste included but not dmg-add? - I understand for the support-buffs like pom etc., but dmg-add (and maybe dmg shields though few use them anyway, so that's not that important) are boosting dps just like haste does...

(Sorry for my wall of text, but i have a few areas to discuss and limiting to a few words would not explain anything. So please take the time to read, before replying to my comments. If you dont, you may miss important information on what i maybe trying to explain ... seems to happen a lot, when someone is use to a few words, to explain something, which then really does not explain anything. If you dont want to read, then ignore please)

I knew the major talk in replays to this post, would be about the buff limit and OP Ranger. There is a major mis-understanding of how buffs effect the game. The idea is, every buff on every class is a bonus, wether they spec for it, free base line buff, from a buffbot or from a pot or charge. But that is oviously not true. The other shards and live buffbotting has spoiled people into believing that it is needed to compete. Well on live it was, when facing someone with every bonus. But this feature to buff yourself from a buffbot was never supported by mythic, even starting a second client on live now, still says it is not supported. And the balance issue it creates over the years has drastically changed live daoc, where buffs have become easier and easier to get. Just look at all the archers now on live, they all have the same buffs, freely obtained by a bow spec now, instead of a buffline, which made you sacrifice spec points to get them. But since more and more of your enemys, who do not have a buffline that is required to be spec into, where able to have buffs. It made classes like Rangers, Wardens, Bards, Champions, Thanes and so on, devalue there bufflines. The buffs they got, which increase there damage or absorb to damage (AF), did not increase there preformance to match there non buffing counter parts, because there counter parts also have a AF buff and other buffs, from a buffbot. So mythic started make changes to compensate this problem in later patches, like adding more spells to those spec lines, or more buffs, or even combining a buffline into another line, to free up spec points. But we are going to classic, without all these class changes for balance.

Why are some classes able to have a buffline, while others do not?
- It is simple, while some classes get a spec line to have a shield and shield styles to increase defense and stun utility, and others have poisons to debuff there enemys performance, and others who have damaging shouts and chants, and others who have no spell line but are equipt with a high damage table and or more HP per con. Just like all of those classes, there is some who get buffs from a spec line, wether they spec for them or get base line ones for free, it is all part of there design to make them balanced with what everyone else has, in utility. For example a Ranger vs an assassin. The ranger specs high into PF for extra AF for absorb, Base Str and Dex/Qui buffs for damage and attack speed and a damage add to also increase damage. At the same time an assassin can spec for poisons, which gives a str/con debuff, which lowers there enemys damage and Absorb (total health). They also get a dot poison to increase damage. There is also special poisons to slow down attack speed also. Now one could say, well he can just purge those poisons. Well yes he can, but mythic made poisons have no immunity timers. Why do you think they did that, well it was so that an assassin could re-apply his needed debuffs, to keep his enemy crippled, to a point, so like a rangers buffs would not benefit him as much, and balance the fight.

There is many aspects to a classes design, like what armor they can put on, what kind of spec lines they will get, how many spec points they get, there primary / secondary / and thirdary stats as they level, what damage table and health table they are on and so on. One common thing to see on a class that can get buffs, is that they are normally on a lower damage table and or lower HP table. While non buffers are not or if they are, they have a spec line and ablitiys to make up for there low damage tables. Like an assassin is on the same tables as an archer. But the assassin does not get buffs, but they do get poisons and better defense.

If you look at every class in black and white, and think of them as equal without any diffrience in what they need. It would make sense for people to think they need to have un-specced buffs and why they think Rangers are OP because of there 4 buffs they ( have ) to spec for. When you think of total bonus of buffs with potions and charged buffs, you can not include buffs one had spec for. You can only consider buffs they have gotten by way of charge, pot or from another player in there group. Now many will think rangers are OP because of there PF buffs, and they need there 4-6 charge/pot buffs to compete. But in reality, many of those rangers could easly be running 4-6 extra buffs too. What buffs, well ( base dex, base con, haste, str/con, ablative, Dmg shield ) and im sure there is other things too. So just because you may run with 4-6 extra buffs, does not mean a ranger is not also, excluding his PF. But then why are rangers OP. Well in the idea that buffs are such a big deal, for the uneducated person. What looks more attractive to make. A scout with no buffs, a hunter with only d/q and AF or a ranger with 4 buffs. Also on top of that, we have people on the forums saying that scouts and hunters suck and rangers a super OP because of .... never truely explained why. And then we had the volley days, which when that started, the number of rangers also sky rocketed. And we also have that rangers have dual wield, while the other two archers have 1h and 2H, which the 2H maybe underpreforming, but in any case, everyone says dual wield is the way to go, so your choice is only ranger. This is why there is so many rangers compared to its counter parts. Even a while back, there was very few NS, but now since volley was fixed and OF Ras is on its way, the NS will replace those who made rangers, as if you go look, there is now way more NS.

So why is rangers so strong vs assassins at higher ranks. Well if most have noticed, many times a ranger will need to blow active RAs to survive, unless they manage to get lucky with there opening. Unlike most assassins, which are loaded with passive RAs. When a ranger has blow his Active Ra's, his performance will go down a bit, depending on how high of a RR they are. But an assassin will keep the same performance after every fight, because they dont have a camo to wait on, or IP. Rangers do have PD, but that can only go so far. Rangers just have a really bad rep, because of all i said above, which made them the only archers in RvR, with a few other ones in other realms. And those volley days did not help. This will pass with old ra's, when the shine of NS old RAs hit the forums whine threads. Whine threads can drive many players to choose what class to play and what not to play. It takes to long to level up a guess, why not use the forums to aid your choice. Bingo, we have fifty thousand rangers. Then comes NS whine threads, and there will be fifty thousand NS after.

On the issue of what buffs should be included in the 2 buff limit. This should apply mostly to buffs that are long duration, like 5min or longer. And it should not apply to regen buffs, as there impact in a single fight is very little, and more useful to reduce down time after a fight. It is not needed to fight though. Also 30sec buffs, like damage adds should not be counted in the limit. Why, well they are during fight buffs, which if you use it, you can not use any other charge/pot during that fight (60sec). While the other could use a heal pot or dd charge and you could not because of the 60 sec reuse. The ones that should be considered is the fallowing

str , dex, con, str/con, dex/qui, haste, acuity, Spec AF, Damage Shield, Ablitive

Each of the above should be considered in the 2 buff limit. Which means you can have two of the above on you, by way of a charge or potion use. That does not apply to a reactive proc or weapon proc because they are unpredictable and passive, which everyone gets to choose what weapon/armor procs they want. Also buffs from other players, ether in your group or passing by will not count to your limit. SO lets say a druid casts AoE Str/Con and Acuity. Since they where not from a charge or pot, they will not count to your limit. This way asking realm mates for a buff now and then, will encourage realm interaction and those classes with buffs to share, can get small and large groups.

I dont think the buffs up top, from charge and pot should be 20min, since your limited to only two buffs and it will make it make less expensive and a hassle for causal play. And may make this change more attractive.

Endurence, Health, and Mana regen should not be part of the limit and keep same durations. They have little impact on a fight, and does help with down time. Also gives work for alchemists, as they will be needed to make barrels, along with the tipical heal / end / power potions.

When you look at buffs from charge or pot, and if it should be part of the limit. You need to think of the fallowing. Is it long enough duration, where they could have it used, with plenty of time to use a pot or charge during a fight? How much of an impact does this buff have during a fight?

Everyone has mixed feelings about such changes, and that is always expected, as people may not like change, to something of unknown. Things could get much better, or much worse. But remember, we nerfed charge buffs once already and it was cried about, but now it seems to be a little better and no one seems to care as much about the reduced values. It needs to be implemented and tested for a good amount of time, to see its impact. Wether they implement it now before Old Ra change or after. Best people can do is bare with it, try it out and see how bad it really will be. And dont all switch to self buffing classes, because of the myth of how self buffs impact game play. We dont need more rangers ...

(Thanks for taking the time to read this, before replying to it)

to much talking for nothing. sorry.

Diez wrote:to much talking for nothing. sorry.

Yeah if this dude spend half the time of his essays at this fora on RvR, he would be rr10 long time ago

Eclipsed wrote:Wall of Text

You know your opinion would have been taken more seriously if it wasn't clearly biased (guess what, you are a ranger)

Yes im the bias one, while you point out im a ranger and consider my post invalid because of that. Do you even know what bias even means.

I too am also a ranger, but that doesnt take away from what he posted. It made alot of sense. What cracks me up the most is all you hear about is ranger this and ranger that about the self buffs, but what about other self buff classes? There are self buff classes across all the realms. For calling a ranger biased for pointing out facts can be said about anyone not bringing up the other classes that benefit from this change as well. +1 to eclipsed

just a question how much unbuffed one assassin has? 1200hp max?Ok lets say they have 1400hp unbuffed i have seen tzaaaa (he was rr10) shooting rr8 warrior with af charge up for 820+380 crit im sure he could one shot every assassin if they were not buffed
I dont like this ****** anymore ppl were waiting for old ras but they will never come now.Also if you see its all same ppl are playing rvr we all know eachather in some ways..Most of us have a lot of chars on all realms (IM NOT SAYING ALL OF US)so if you make 1player stop playing thats allready a big lose for rvr since he could play in many realms and many chars now you wont gonna have that player=ppl will not able to fill the group and simply log off.then come next day see the same story log off again and in the end stop playing.OFC ALL RANGERS LOVE THIS NEWS but after a while they gonna get bored of having no challenge vs them (THANKS GOD I GOT RANGER)...Imo they should boost more hib group chars since there is not many hib groups running out..i been told that BM dmg sux...Thank you gm's for the great job that you are doing.Since i saw this news i didnt get online and its about 3 days

Well we shouldnt tell gm's what they should do and what they should not since this is free shard.There is no Dimocracy just an dictatorship somethink like-i will do whatever i want and i dont care if you dont like it.But we all have free will if you dont come online for 1 month ppl will notice that if 300 active players wont come online for 1 month gm's will notice that.After all think about it they want us 2 play on uthgard so i want say if you dont like this changes that they want to bring to this CLASSIC WANNABE server just dont come online..."I do like this changes tho since i will play my ranger and wtf pwn kill all enemys till they are bored of getting killed and quit this game...Irony"...