Blue wrote:

Nymeros wrote:The vast majority was happier with NF on Uthgard. The vast majority was happier with NF on Live.

I would like to remind you on the vote we did before we made the decision to throw NF into trash. (I know you will tell it was manipulated but you can say that about every vote not in your favor).

Also the state Agramon reached in its last days was not what Uthgard stands for and simply put a workaround for all these whines going on in NF for a long time.

The changes Mythic thought would be good for Origins are not what the player wanted to see. I'm sure nobody wanted a removal of the Theurg class for the sake of classic. But there were a vast amount of players who just wanted to play on a server like back in the days of 2002/2003.

I don't care about conspiracy theories. The vote didn't even have to be manipulated to be completely worthless, because it was based on false information. The lower patch limit was never mentioned, and that affects a LOT of people.

Couple that with the fact that everybody could make as many accounts as they wanted to vote with, and that tens of players have said publicly in the forums that they voted for OF and now want their vote removed (myself included), how can you even mention that poll as an argument of anything?

Or here's another idea: Let's have another poll! We'll see what the players think now.


And please stop using the Origins server as an argument for anything. I've written a list of things that they wanted to do with the Origins server and it has nothing to do with neither Uthgard as it was before, is now, or even Classic servers in general. It was only one more way for Mythic to make money.

People wanted good old DAoC back, but not the ancient decrepit one that was dead and buried for good reason.

Blue wrote:I promise you if Uthgard would implement NF like it was on live our population would drop under 200 rather quickly.

Have I been missing something or are you in fact not implementing OF like it was on Live either?

Seems like everyone forgot the massive whining when NF was still in place. Esp. when agramon teleports were removed (which was just crazy stupid: time to run to where the camps were was like 2 minutes from the bridge keeps).

http://uthgard.net/index.php?option=com ... eport+camp

Development on Origins was discontinued.

Removing theurgists would obviously have been for balance reasons. Theurgist are easily one of the most overpowered classes in DAoC.

You can not lose 600 RvR population if you only have like 150 or so.

Nymeros wrote:

Blue wrote:I promise you if Uthgard would implement NF like it was on live our population would drop under 200 rather quickly.

Have I been missing something or are you in fact not implementing OF like it was on Live either?

Sure we will tweak OF. But even in that raw untreated state OF has way more players than untreated NF had. Without the stupid camp teleports NF was a whine/QQ fest. Teleports just transformed Agramon in a lvl 50 BG.

OF just has 10x more stealthers camping milegates and horse routes really, everything else only got worse your arguments are moot. NF would be a blessing even without telerports now compared to the crappy afkfest on teleport pads.

Blue wrote:Sure we will tweak OF. But even in that raw untreated state OF has way more players than untreated NF had. Without the stupid camp teleports NF was a whine/QQ fest. Teleports just transformed Agramon in a lvl 50 BG.

Uthgard has been gaining players steadily for years. Even I won't ignore the population spike when OF was introduced, but that didn't last long. Not to mention how the curve would look if you would compare the actual RvR pop instead of the general population.

If you actually think people like OF better then NF then just do what many have suggested already: Bring back Aggra, but don't remove OF and even improve it as you planned. If nobody goes there, you win and the few people who *will* go there won't have any basis to whine anymore. If everyone goes there, then you'll have your undeniable proof about what the RvR population wants more.

Jarysa wrote:Seems like everyone forgot the massive whining when NF was still in place. Esp. when agramon teleports were removed (which was just crazy stupid: time to run to where the camps were was like 2 minutes from the bridge keeps).

Removing theurgists would obviously have been for balance reasons. Theurgist are easily one of the most overpowered classes in DAoC.

The only significant amount of whining was with those porters, and that was just crazy retarded and 90% stealther originated. Compare that with today where even pro OF people consider OF a failure. The only difference is that the latter ones believe it could somehow be "fixed".

As for Theurgists and all the other changes, that was only to illustrate to Blue that he wouldn't do even a tenth of what Origins servers promised to do, justified or not, so he shouldn't use them as any kind of an argument.

Another poll perhaps?

And if a significant number of ppl want NF back, then implement agra again and see how many ppl stay in emain.

What can it hurt? The vote needs to be legit, and in game perhaps?

Ppl will go where they make most RP. If you get more in Aggra they ll go to aggra. If they get more in emain, they ll go to emain. So if ppl will go to aggra the only point will be, that they get more RP, not that they actually like it more. Implementing Aggra is no solution at all, it is just another emain map. What is better in NF is Keep fights, thats it. If u stay afk on a boat or pad, there is no difference

Aren't RP's a pretty reliable measure of enjoyment here, since they translate almost directly into won fights? And what if people... LIKE... getting more RPs?

Also, keep fights and solo RvR (and to a lesser degree, smallman). A not so insignificant part of the whole DAoC experience, wouldn't you say?

The gras is always greener on the other side of the fence.
Atm I would love to have NF back, since it's not that entertaining to roam mmg mtk all day long. But if we would go back to NF we get the lovely bridge campers back jipi, can't tell you what's more annoying.
Having mmg mtk area as only source for an inc, 'cause amg atk is filled up with fg, or bridge campers as the only enemies to fight =)

While I'm not happy with OF and skeptical about its ability to improve, I think we should allow changes to be made and improvements to be done before considering a return to NF.

Teleports just transformed Agramon in a lvl 50 BG.

And this is a bad thing? Currently players seem to gather in places most similar to BGs, the closest we have is apparently Emain. Does waiting 5 minutes before getting to go back out really improve the game? We already have rezz sickness for things like that.

Blue wrote:But even in that raw untreated state OF has way more players than untreated NF had.

Did Uthgard switch to OF before or after Mythic closed the European servers?

Blue wrote: Teleports just transformed Agramon in a lvl 50 BG.

And what do you call Emain? 90% of frontier RvR on this server takes place in a narrow corridor between the Midgard portal keep and the Alb portal keep in Emain, and half of that number is concentrated in the area around AMG.

Half the fights on this server take place in an area 1/4th the size of Agramon.

Hoppip wrote:While I'm not happy with OF and skeptical about its ability to improve, I think we should allow changes to be made and improvements to be done before considering a return to NF.

RvR revamp announcement: May 24th, 2010

Today March 30th 2011

See where I'm going?

Jarysa wrote:There definitely was a lot of whining about NF on live servers, mainly because it didn't have "tiered" zones anymore where you could move to odins or even hw if emain was too zergy. NF had a lot of no inc at all or huge zerg. Both solos and groups had the problem of not having set zones to roam anymore, but only the choice between nothing and [I am a little bunny and like flowers] like dc bridge or close keeps with ports (Nott and Bled, etc..). Solo situation got better when agramon died as a primary RvR zone and left the bridges for the solos and 8vs8 situation got better when 8vs8 zones were established.

Nothing of that really applies to Uthgard as RvR population is way too low here for that to matter.

The population number is actually secondary to the overall retardation called Uthgard community. If Uthgard had 1k+ people (most of them in RvR) in NF and regular zergs on all 3 realms, do you really think Agramon/mazes (or whatever the uthgard equivalent of 8v8 areas would be) wouldn't be camped 24/7? I'm not saying on live zergs aren't retarded and that they don't chase solos/smallman/8man to the end of the world when they see them (especially since the "eurotrash" transfer) but at least they don't camp the 8v8 areas. On Uthgard those areas would be camped constantly by zergs because even though the "adding is fine, it's just a game" and "if we zerg then zerg us back" people preach how they don't care about the 8v8 community and how they only care about their own playstyle, the truth is that they despise the 8v8 community and what it represents, and ruining it in any way they can brings them joy.

pweet wrote:Ppl will go where they make most RP. If you get more in Aggra they ll go to aggra. If they get more in emain, they ll go to emain. So if ppl will go to aggra the only point will be, that they get more RP, not that they actually like it more. Implementing Aggra is no solution at all, it is just another emain map. What is better in NF is Keep fights, thats it. If u stay afk on a boat or pad, there is no difference

let's see here

8v8 better in NF
solo better in NF
smallman better in NF
Keepfights better in NF
Zerg lulz better in NF

Just because you run after every RP it doesn't mean everyone is like that. I would rather have constant action and win only once out of 5 times than 1 inc every half an hour and win every time.
Also Agramon is not an "emain map", I have no idea what you want to say with that since it makes no sense. Next time you write a post, just before you hit submit I suggest you Chickity-check yo self before you wreck yo self.

bawww wrote:Next time you write a post, just before you hit submit I suggest you Chickity-check yo self before you wreck yo self.

This just made my crafting!

Raw OF as we have it now is indeed worse than what we had over the past years, and thus obviously worse than NF. There's really no point in repeating that endlessly. However it still hasn't gotten the overhaul it needs to be given a proper chance of success.

When ( ! ) the overhaul has finally come and had some time to sink in, we can actually evaluate OF as the staff really intends it to be.

That is also why I think it's kind of useless to demand a mapswitch before they have executed their plans with OF.