Cloth wearers are some how not soft target on uth, the opposite, i often hit tanks vulnerable to thrust harder then casters. AF here seems not to effect dmg as it does on live and caster = neutral to all dmg types, add PD to that and you hit for ****** against them. Only soft targets here are leather or rf/studded users without pd and right weapon type against em.

Jonah wrote:Cloth wearers are some how not soft target on uth, the opposite, i often hit tanks vulnerable to thrust harder then casters. AF here seems not to effect dmg as it does on live and caster = neutral to all dmg types, add PD to that and you hit for [I am a little bunny and like flowers] against them. Only soft targets here are leather or rf/studded users without pd and right weapon type against em.

It's not that, it's that penalties/bonuses for armor types are too high on uthgard meaning bonus damage against a certain armor type will do more than it should as well a HUGE differences between hitting with weapons which do bonus or reduced damage.

/sigh Well, Lemonjelly, by the trillionth time now and this time specially for you: bow spec, slow bow, right arrows... that and much more, i have it. All you can think of regarded to bow, I have it all. My archer is mr. Bowdood, the arrowguy... get it? the Lord of the bows, Dungeons & Arrows... in skills, not performance.

Fact: I land a successful crit shot, the adversary runs my way and I hit one or two more shots, we go hand-to-hand, I slam then critshot and switch to my 15 specced thrust. Only then the adversary starts dealing REAL damage, he beats me up, I die and he survies with about 40% hp.

Aw nevermind. It has been like this since 2007, you can not even pull a critshot without loosing stealth and if it has suddently changed to this thing back then and did not change back to original in four years then it will not change back anymore, one can only assume that it all was INTENDED changes. And since we "will not tell them what to do" (right, Blue?), then I shut up.

I guess I will go and try some other class or server, or respec to melee, or stay in BG forever (low resists, at least).

Lemonjelly wrote:
It's not that, it's that penalties/bonuses for armor types are too high on uthgard meaning bonus damage against a certain armor type will do more than it should as well a HUGE differences between hitting with weapons which do bonus or reduced damage.

Afaik it was +-10% on live, is it somehow different here? It sure feels like its 10%, no less no more.

On live it was revised to +- 5%, which may be what they mean. I've calculated resists against resistant armor in the BGs and usually come up with 36%. (This is of course when the opponent is obviously full SC'd)

Rufus_The_Hermit wrote:15 specced thrust

lol?

try a decent spec like 44 thrust, 42 shield, 50 comp stealth, rest bow

Rufus_The_Hermit wrote:/sigh Well, Lemonjelly, by the trillionth time now and this time specially for you: bow spec, slow bow, right arrows... that and much more, i have it. All you can think of regarded to bow, I have it all. My archer is mr. Bowdood, the arrowguy... get it? the Lord of the bows, Dungeons & Arrows... in skills, not performance.

Fact: I land a successful crit shot, the adversary runs my way and I hit one or two more shots, we go hand-to-hand, I slam then critshot and switch to my 15 specced thrust. Only then the adversary starts dealing REAL damage, he beats me up, I die and he survies with about 40% hp.

Well it's obvious here that you're playing your scout wrong in every way. First of all if you can't do up to 800 damage critshot against assassins with an optimized bow setup then it's just not optimized and you're overlooking something, or doing something very wrong. I've had a bow scout critshot my fully templated blademaster for 750 so yeah 800 is definitely doable. Secondly if you have 42 shield and 15 thrust why would you hit with the thrusting weapon ? Shield (crush damage) also does bonus damage against hib stealthers and neutral against mids, all around better damage than a measly 15 thrust.

Jarysa wrote:

Rufus_The_Hermit wrote:15 specced thrust

lol?

try a decent spec like 44 thrust, 42 shield, 50 comp stealth, rest bow

To be fair the best Scout spec in the world won't help you if you can't actually hit your opponent.

Of course in this case I'm really stretching the definition of the word "fair."

Jarysa, "lol" for what? the 15 thrust? Please quote whenever I said that I expected good damage out of melee weapon. Please, quote it. Go ahead, scroll upwards and quote when I said I expected to hit harder with a thrusting weapon. Are you reading AT ALL? I AM TALKING ABOUT BOW. You know, that little thing that shoots arrows? BOW. Of course I have only 15 points into thrust weapon! Once you spend all your points into BOW (and some shield and stealth), then those meager 15 is all that is left for melee weapon. Screw the thrust, I could spec 1 or 15 or 50 thrust, same thing. BOW. I could well hit with a staff after going melee, does not matter. Get it? the thing I mean is BOW. Thrust damage is fine, staff damage is fine, it is the BOW that sucks.

Lemonjelly, have I not said "BOW FOCUSED" other times? including saying specificaly for you? Has it not been clear enought so far that obviously it was a case of 50 specced BOW? And was it not clear that not only BOW spec, the char also has BOW-like stats and BOW-like RAs and blah and blah and blah? Then whow could it possibly be that it is not "optimized bow setup"? Tell me, how more optimized could it be? Tell me what is it that I am doing "wrong in every way". If it is so obvious to you, it sure is not obvious to me. Brighten me then, what is wrong in: open with a crit shot hit one or two more arrows slam do another critshot go melee (both thrust and 42 shield) and barely taking the unbuffed adversary below 40%?

Seyha, why do you think there is a reason for not "actually hit my opponent" with the BOW? Because of too low thrust spec?

OMG! I specced 50 into enchantment and my pet still doesn't hit for 800dmg!

Archers are not supposed to regularly kill stuff just with their bow, because it would be ****** OP if they could kill you before you could get into melee range all the time.

Rolling a terrible class and then playing it terribly for RP reasons ...

I never said I expected the archer to kill things before they could even reach him, did I? No, that is what you say because you did not understand my point (wich is frustrating, because I could swear I was quite clear). Neither did I say that I expected to get an archer and go about doing 800+ everywhere I looked at. Actually what I said was the opposite and very reasonable:

Rufus_The_Hermit wrote:Moreover, you can not just expect to go using critshot because regular shots suck, you know very well of all the requisites for a critshot. Even when you FINALLY get the requisites right, you still have to deal with the great chance of ruining it all and revealing yourself because you are poped out of stealth

You can not just compare a notice like

Rufus_The_Hermit wrote:sniper archer hits like melee archer unless he gets notably high levels of Falcon's eye, augmented dexterity and other RAs of the sort. I think that this is wrong, I think that sniper archer should hit like sniper archer. Get it?

with a claim like

Jarysa wrote:OMG! I specced 50 into enchantment and my pet still doesn't hit for 800dmg!

You compare something reasonable and worthy of attention with a mocking example of nonsense claim. The critshot is an unique and rare situation in wich a specific class has the possiblility to deal double damage in one attack and only after meeting many requisites, but you put it on the same bag with pets running around doing double damage with each attack of delay 2,5 seconds. Now, those two are not the same thing at all, are they?

If you want to deal bow damage you need at least base dex from potion and spec dex from charge. All stealthers here on uthgard buff them self. You also want to have a spec like 35 bow, 42 shield, 35 stealth, rest weapon. Bow above composite 50 spec does nothing than eat you spec points.

Than you want to be RR8+, since you need it to have RAs like Purge, IP, and MoS ... preferably capped at max level. Than you will be able to compete with assassins lower in your RR.

My RR4 hybrid Ranger is fully buffed with Pots and self-buffs and have hard times to compete with assassins. And a Ranger is much more stronger than a scout. It not depends on skill, btw., because with my RR4 Infil i do alot of more kills in the same time as with my Ranger. Assassins are rediculous powerfull here with no buffbots but Viper 3 and bugged PA damage.

Rufus_The_Hermit wrote:Moreover, you can not just expect to go using critshot because regular shots suck, you know very well of all the requisites for a critshot. Even when you FINALLY get the requisites right, you still have to deal with the great chance of ruining it all and revealing yourself because you are poped out of stealth

Rufus_The_Hermit wrote:sniper archer hits like melee archer unless he gets notably high levels of Falcon's eye, augmented dexterity and other RAs of the sort. I think that this is wrong, I think that sniper archer should hit like sniper archer. Get it?

Confirmed, even on 50 +17 bow skill you destealth like 33% or even more while drawing a shot, sadly I wasn´t able to get some source on the interwebs and prove this isn´t "classic like".
I´d also increase bow damage, on live full snipers two/threehitted unbuffed casters easily and landing a succesful CS is pretty rare so there won´t be any OPing archers due to raising damage.
85% of my currently RA setting are passive damage increasing RAs, additionally using my lvl48 d/q selfbuff there has to be more damage.

Still enough bugs about archery related mechanics but it´s yet not impossible to play a sniper.

The chance to destealth is not determined by your bow spec, but your composite stealth spec. With a combined spec of 50 in stealth, will destealth you 20%, when drying a CS and 0% with normal shot. But im not sure if that is completely correct on uthgard, as i destealth more then 20%. Sometimes it feels like 30-40%. But i have tested it, not vs players but should not require a target to test. Result seemed correct. So ether there is some other factor causing an issue or just a lot of bad luck, with are wonderful random generator on the server.

Rufus_The_Hermit wrote:Tell me what is it that I am doing "wrong in every way". If it is so obvious to you, it sure is not obvious to me. Brighten me then, what is wrong in: open with a crit shot hit one or two more arrows slam do another critshot go melee (both thrust and 42 shield) and barely taking the unbuffed adversary below 40%?

If you don't kill your an assassin with 2 critshots and 2-3 regular shots then you're doing something very wrong but we established that already. Also going into melee combat when you're not forced to and have no melee spec is a huge mistake as well.