Eclipsed wrote:(edited)
O and also, there is only 6 (16%) classes in total, out of all 3 realms (38 total), that has the ablitiy to have high enough evade currently, to effect the out come of a battle. There is a total of 10 (26%) who can spec shield, (5alb,3hib,2mid). And there is 15 (39%) classes who can spec parry (5 in each realm).

And no class that doesn't have evade, spec shield or parry will you find soloing (mages, support). Your way of thinking is extremely bad. Every enemy a hunter encounters will have at least one form of defense that will cripple hunters.

Eclipsed wrote:A lvl 50 infi with no extra buffs or RAs has a min Evade chance of 40%, and Dex/Qui charge and dex pot would give about 4-5% more, and with RAs maybe get to 50% evade. You dont have to be a high rank to achieve a high evade rate on an assassin. For damage, well buffs dont really add all that much to a low table class. There dots will deal most of it.

As i wrote (learn to read please) he was unbuffed. The problem is not that infis can easily cap evade chance (thank you for your usual well knonw info), the problem is that there's anything you can do to low this chance if you are not a DW class. I mention buffs because they increase my stats and my WS, and this SHOULD HELP to penetrate the enemy defense in a DAOC server, but not on Uthgard. I talk about rank when it comes to active RA abilites, like purge and IP2 that i used in the fight vainly, and to passive aug-stats that again SHOULD HELP to penetrate defense.

Eclipsed wrote:How are you spec, anything in bow? If you have anything in bow, like 35 or higher. Then you will need to use your bow, or your fight could be difficult. If you start a fight in melee, your throwing out all those spec points you have in your bow. Also when you faced this infi, did you move at all to attempt to get past there defenses, or did you stand still like a good boy for that high defense class. Why dont some hunters make some videos on uthgard showing these impossible fights and that you are doing everything you should be.

I fought Seyha a long while ago, and it was a close fight, if i didnt open with a Critshot, while he was walking by in stealth with camo up. He is a few ranks above me, but a higher rank doesnt mean you get to win, just means you can be more lazy about it

I know my class and my spec is perfect for what i want to do in a fight, thanks. Please stop thinking that you can teach eveyone how to play. I tryed every spec possible for this class on Uthgard and this is the one who perform better at the moment. If you know better way to play an hunter: roll one and show me your skill. You blabla man.
If it isn't clear enough for you i repeat: an hunter can do nothing to avoid to be evaded. Tell me why moving around during a fight should help me to be evaded less.

Eclipsed wrote:O and also, there is only 6 (16%) classes in total, out of all 3 realms (38 total), that has the ablitiy to have high enough evade currently, to effect the out come of a battle. There is a total of 10 (26%) who can spec shield, (5alb,3hib,2mid). And there is 15 (39%) classes who can spec parry (5 in each realm).

So as you can see, your chance of facing someone who has parry, is much greater. Yes those who have low evade, could have there shield out. But if they have a shield out, they are stuck with 1H damage out put. But if you combine the evade and block, which comes to about 42%, that is real close to 39%, but with parry, you can use your 2H weapon or dual wield without losing your defenses. So what the real problem is, is that most hunters are facing only assasins and rangers in Solo. As the current setup is not very good to find non stealthers alone. Fix that and there would be less crying. You can not base fixing something, on a few classes that you normally have to face. Look else where for others. Stay away from the gates, as that is stealther camp grounds.

Do you really believe in the nonsense you write? Because if you really think that it's this the way it works, then you don't play on Uthgard. As a soloer you will face other stealther mainly and some solo friar. There are just one merc and one champion that soloplay sometimes. Stop. So the chance to face someone who has parry is very low. Please, please stop ridicule yourself.

I'm not basing something on the few class usually i face, i'm basing something on the impossibility to play a class properly.

And again please stop giving idiot advice like "stay away from gates", we are talking about a problem (defence penetration) that affect the whole RvR itself, at least all the melee classes. Tell me what is more important than this.

#1: Your full buffs and aug stats will only raise your damage a little, as your on a low dmg table, as i said. And yes it increases your WS, but as you said WS does not work on uthgard yet. So my point was, your buffs did not much that much diff. Most of it that would help is extra con / hp.

#2: What is your spec? How much bow spec do you have and in many of your fights, do you open with bow shots. As i said, if someone spec into something and do not use it, that is wasted points and you should expect to feel that during the fight. This is why each class as spec points. It would be like a hero specing 42 shield, but then ignores using it during fights and only using a 2H weapon. That spec points it took to get to 42 shield, would be wasted. Compared to if he spent them in his 2H weapon or parry. Not that you can not win a fight, if you spec bow and dont use it in a fight. But dont expect to be a melee expert vs an assassin, who is fully spec for melee.

On the moving around thing. Its called strafing, but not with the straf keys. Many would call it lame, but who benifits from you not stafing. The one with high defenses, that you can not penetrate. And dont say its impossible to do, if you have a bad connection or slow computer. I can do it fine with my good computer (high fps) and when i had my faster internet. But now im stuck on my slower laptop (low fps often) and sharing internet with my GF, which gives me lag time to time and i can still do it as well. The key is not to go nuts running back and forth or to the side, as that will screw you up and make you miss your styles more. You also have to time it based off of your swing time. It isnt the easiest thing to do, but it can be done. It also can be countered, which youl have to fiqure on your own. Just watch classic videos, its nothing new. Same as the defenses, its nothing new they didnt face back then.

#3: What is the difference from uthgard to classic live (1.69), when it comes to defenses you face? Would it be that WS doesnt work like it should, and very few visible soloers? If so, maybe we should focus on fixing that, then looking to bug one thing to benefit very few. What about blademasters, mercenary's, and berserkers, they also benefit with the dual wield rules to penetrate defenses, while there main defense is parry. I think we need to fix WS, so it effects defenses and find ways to get more solo visables into RvR, before we can truly determine if the defense penetration from dual wield and 2H should be removed. Removing something that was part of classic for years, because of unfixed bugs (including hunter related known bugs), could cause problems when and if those bugs are fixed in the future. WS should be worked on as a priority asap though, and i hope that is what is going on in the back ground.

Eclipsed, clearly you don't read my posts, that's why I will not answer again after this one.

1) You just rewrote what i've said, thinking to say something different?

Eclipsed wrote:So my point was, your buffs did not much that much diff.

Celad wrote:the problem is that there's anything you can do to low this chance if you are not a DW class. I mention buffs because they increase my stats and my WS, and this SHOULD HELP to penetrate the enemy defense in a DAOC server, but not on Uthgard.

2) Please stop writing useless and well know things. Your blabla is just annoying. Read carefully what i wrote, there are answers to all of your theoretical useless speculation.

I know what strafing mean, thanks my professor. Please enlight me about why an anemy with an high defence would benefit more than another enemy from a non strafer target. You just wrote nonsense again. I can strafe to hell but this won't help to low ecade chance because THERE'S NO WAY FOR A NON-DW TOON TO LOW EVADE CHANCE OF A TARGET ON UTHGARD. Are we talking the same language or not? Please show me the connection between strafing in combat and enemy defence penetration, if there is one, it's just in your head.

3) Omg are you really trying to say that melee mechanics on Uthgard are a problem just for few players? I hope it's just that your english sucks, but probably you really believe in what you write.

Defenses are only frontal arch, so how can strafing help get past defenses .... really you cant figure out the answer. Here is a question for you, how did hunters and others deal with getting past ones defenses during classic 1.69 or earlier, while the DW 2H rule existed.

Eclipsed wrote:Here is a question for you, how did hunters and others deal with getting past ones defenses during classic 1.69 or earlier, while the DW 2H rule existed.

Weaponskill worked.

There you go, now we know what needs to be fixed.

Make a fix, not a removal of a classic feature. It would be like. WS doesnt work, so lets remove all defenses. Which that would actually help hunters. Why? well if we remove the DW/2H rule, it does not make penetrating ones defense better. It actually makes it worse.

So for a hunter, if we removed this rule, how would it actually help a hunter win a fight agenst an assasin? And dont say because your evade would go up, because your talking about going from like 10% to maybe 20%. YOul still get your attacks evaded as much as before.

Eclipsed wrote:There you go, now we know what needs to be fixed.

Knew it for a long time.

Eclipsed wrote:Make a fix, not a removal of a classic feature. It would be like. WS doesnt work, so lets remove all defenses. Which that would actually help hunters. Why? well if we remove the DW/2H rule, it does not make penetrating ones defense better. It actually makes it worse.

Nobody ever said anything about removing defenses, but yes the dw/2h rule is retarded and that's why it doesn't exist on live anymore. Not all classic "features" were good, yes this one benefits the ONLY CHARACTER YOU PLAY but in order to have a constructive opinion on such a matter one should not be so biased and in dire lack of experience such as yourself.

Eclipsed wrote:So for a hunter, if we removed this rule, how would it actually help a hunter win a fight agenst an assasin? And dont say because your evade would go up, because your talking about going from like 10% to maybe 20%. YOul still get your attacks evaded as much as before.

A hunter's base evade chance is much higher than 10%. How would it help the hunter you ask ? Are you serious ? 50% defense penetration vs 0% defense penetration or 0% vs 0% and you can't see a difference ?

A hunter with highest 90 D/Q buff and 20 dex pot. 315 Dex and 268 Qui will have an evade rate of about 27%, vs DW it is 14%. Remove the rule and they will gain that 13-14% back, which will let them evade... what one attack. While again, they still will not hit there enemy.

So again, why would removing this rule help a hunter defeat an enemy with high evade or block? And i know you didnt say remove all defenses, i was making a point. Here it is.

Remove DW/2H rule = Assasin/high defense enemy will still evade/parry/block as much, so it will not make things better for the hunter.

Remove all Defenses = At least allow the hunter to actually hit there enemy and would make it easier. But is just an example of a change that actualy would help the hunter. But oviously not a serious idea for a change, just an example.

Fix WS = Allows the hunter to reduce defense along with everyone else.

Why have the staff/devs work on removing a feature, when we would rather have them fixing or attempting to make a formula for WS defense penetration.

Eclipsed, the suggestion to remove the DW/2h defense penalty had nothing to do with the Hunter class. Just forget about the Hunter for one moment. Try to comprehend that some people care about balancing the game outside of their own preferred class.

Uthgard should adopt the current live-like defense system because it removes an arbitrary and unbalanced mechanic. Rangers, assassins, and light tanks cut both of the primary defense abilities in half... why? They already have the best damage mechanic in the game (LA/DW/CD). Assassins have PA and poisons, Rangers have self-buffs and 5.7spd bows, light tanks are on a top damage tier and get additional abilities to boost damage. None of these classes need a special defense-penetrating mechanic on top of everything else.

But back on topic: No one mentioned any of that, so I don't know why you brought it up.

DW = only can parry or evade. Light tanks dont have high evade and can only use parry, no shield while they use DW. If someone is facing the DW with a 2H weapon, they can cut the parry down. So the light tank is not compeletly on top with this rule. Ranger and assasins can only evade. Without the rule, it will make high defense classes, including assasins untouchable. Like a BM vs an assasin. Or hunter vs a class with high parry and 2H weapon.

There is two sides of this rule and so far the DW part is the only one that seems to be on the table and cried about. Its not hard to see why. And these discussions are not going anywhere. We all know that WS needs to be fixed. And since i already helped the poster in this thread, there is no more need to contenue this off topic talks. Make a new thread to remove the rule with your points, and myn will fallow. Then the staff can read them .... although it has been talked about in the past, so most likely isnt needed. WS fix is though needed.

Eclipsed wrote:DW = only can parry or evade. Light tanks dont have high evade and can only use parry, no shield while they use DW. If someone is facing the DW with a 2H weapon, they can cut the parry down. So the light tank is not compeletly on top with this rule.

DW = halves both evade and block which you will encounter against every solo enemy you meet. 2h only halves parry which 90% of the solo population doesn't even have seeing as it's mostly stealthers so that "rule" is virtually useless in solo play.

Eclipsed wrote:Without the rule, it will make high defense classes, including assasins untouchable.

You mean just like they are now against 2h users but you don't want to feel their pain on your poor little ranger ?

Eclipsed wrote:Like a BM vs an assasin. Or hunter vs a class with high parry and 2H weapon.

It's like you don't even play on this server (well 5L3 after 3 years... you basically don't). What does a solo hunter face every day that has high parry and a 2h weapon ? Yeah endgame rvr is just flooding with solo armsmen, heroes and champions.

You talk a lot of theory Eclipsed and that's really nice but your practical thinking is absolute zero.

I do have a lvl 45 Valewalker i play too. Its another class i enjoyed playing and is using a 2H weapon. But my ranger does face parry / block classes, like an armsman i fought tonight. Because the current setup, disencourages solo visables, is not valid arguement, because if it gets fixed, then there will be planty of parry classes out. Same with fixing WS.

Get WS fixed, and hopefully a rvr revamp to encourge visables into solo RvR. Then we can discuss theses rules. Till then, there is no need to remove features to compensite for broken aspects of the server. If we did, then i would ask to remove all procs, because bows dont have procs and was a known bugs for YEARS. But i know that is stupid to do, because one day it will hopefully get fixed. Be pationt and bump the current thread.

Not posting anymore on this DW/2H rule talks, leads no where.

Seyha wrote:The Hunter's main problem is that it can not beat enemy defenses. High evade and block classes will laugh in the Hunter's face, and all of the Hunter's common opponents have high evade or high block. The only exception is the Ranger, who simply beats the Hunter with superior melee and bow damage.

The class is poorly balanced on Uthgard. I only play it because of the perverse sense of joy I get when I actually manage to kill something.

LOL so true

I know that i wrote this:

Celad wrote:I will not answer again after this one.

but this is too much Eclisped. Frontal arch? You mean 180° in front of the enemy, i know that (however it don't work for classes with advanced evade, standing to your statistics i should fight them often too so what i have to do with these classes?). Sure it's possible (not easy if you're not fighting with a noob) to move over this arch but really: do you understand it's unfair that the only way to try to penetrate the evade chance of an enemy is to dance around him like a gay, while all the class i fight often simply cap their evade chance doing nothing? You can't try to convince me that this melee system is balanced because there's a way to hardly try to penetrate the evade chance. In fact there's no way. Every player in 2011 knows how to turn with mouse at least, this is enough to avoid your "penetrate evade super tactic". Who don't know this is so noob that he roam in group with his stalther, so we are not talking about 1vs1 anymore.

Then when i see these:

Eclipsed wrote:my ranger does face parry / block classes, like an armsman i fought tonight.

Eclipsed wrote:Get WS fixed, and hopefully a rvr revamp to encourge visables into solo RvR.

Eclipsed wrote:Not posting anymore on this DW/2H rule talks, leads no where.

i understand there is no hope for you. An armsman you fought tonight? A single armsman in a day? Are you kidding me? Do you really think that visibles will come out in solo when the WS problem is fixed?

And finally the best of all: you and only you brought up this DW/2H "rule talks". I never mentioned it, as usual you come up with a topic, discuss it to hell, and then you yourself understand that it was completely off topic with the main discussion.
However for your happiness:

Roclar.net wrote:Evade
Evade is based entirely off of your level of Evade. For each level of evade you have a 5% chance of evading. Evade V would give you a 25% chance of evading an attack.
Evade: (((Qui+Dex)-100)/40)+(Evade*5)+(Dodger*3). < Possible relation to buffs
Evade is only possible if they are within your frontal arc of 180 degrees, unless you have "Advanced Evade" which is only given to Bezerkers, Savages, Blademasters and Mercenaries. Those classes with "Advanced Evade" can evade attacks from ANY angle.
Testing has indicated that when facing enemies using 2 weapons your chance to evade is halved. This is apparently a bug.