GoGreen wrote:

Lemonjelly wrote:How do zergs improve fg rvr ? By forcing them to log off ?

Uthgard wants and supports zerg, even better for you. Since real 8men can farm a zerg easily. But imo you do not even run in an 8men

I don't know where this misconception came from that a fg easily farms zergs. Even if you're running a very good/med-high realm rank group fighting 2 fgs of mediocre players is difficult and anything more just becomes impossible unless every single person in that zerg is braindead. Remember this is not 2003 nor live. There are no lowbies with no templates here, uthgard still has nf realm abilities (charge, sos, purge for 5 realm skill points), no speedwarps to kite with, there is no cure nearsight. Please rvr at least once and fight a zerg as a full group before writing such rubbish.

Uthgard wants and supports rvr in any form, not just zerging, for your information.

Rasta! wrote:347 online, 5 man hib grp suicide from emain after running around for 25 minutes no inc.

Thank mids for killing our (alb) 5man with a full group + 6man running together. But according to "gogreen" that was easy farming for us

Due to huge controversy on the forums...
I don't think that at the time Uthgard had the actual playing playerbase. Now things are much different, and something has to be done, to effectively transform OF in what has to naturally be the end-game of daoc.
You can't think that 49.5 is your end-game just to solo in thidranki.

We've come to a point at which people are scared to exp in frontiers because they could feed 100 or 200 rp at best to the ganking soloer who gets nearby. Scared. What do you fear? You're not in a game in which you lose EVERYTHING by dieing. You get 1 min rez sick. At worst you'll have to pay some gold to the healer. Is that a big deal?
Following this mentality we can see that there is NO EFFORT to help the realm itself.
Noone exps in frontier, therefore there's no need to patrol it when you see a noob being ganked just outside the border keeps.
Same thing in DF. If it opens, there will soon be a hurry to create 8man groups to get to enemy entrance AND / OR prince, highlords, hulks, whatever. After 10 mins, a couple stealthers pop by the lowbie areas, and noone (i repeat it NO ONE) cares to clear up. If you see newly entered high level chars, they just pass by ignoring the potential threat to expers, only minding their own business. And you know why? Because they have to level to be able to join Thidranki or set up their template.

All this happens thanks to the wrong mentality the actual server imposed to the people.
BGs ultrawidespan initial level range (20 - 35! A level 21 gets in, and he'll deal at best 10 damage per cast or swing to an enemy level 35, IF he hits!). And the thidranki bg is lol. You can get in and never get out of it unless you're nearly RR5. Whoever tries to get in frontier too early has to deal with the BG trained toons. A nearly impossible fight.

Again, this could work in a low population layout. Since Uthgard is now having much more people (very much), staff should try to make frontiers much more appealing. Enhancing xp spots, enhancing xp obtained in the frontier. Lowering the level caps of BG.
Yeah, what if you'd put the old BG layout? Thid, Caledonia, Molvik, Leirvik whatever their names. Each with a 5 level range span. No 20-35 one. And let them end at best at level 44. So people may get RR4 but they'd still have to deal with level 50s in frontier.

Do not fear of gankers, do not fear stealthers. It is part of the game. It is natural. Take some risks, and you'll be rewarded for that. Deaths happen, so? Want to quit just because you were ganked? If frontier exping will become rewarding, you can bet that inthe time you will have gankers, yes, but you will have hunters too (not the midgard class, i mean those who hunt for gankers).
That helps developing soloers and small man grps. Not only 8vs8 superultrahigh RR or zergs.

And another thing: if you fear going to the frontiers olo cause of high rr people, well, they were playing for quite some time before you. Nothing you can do. Just group and try to overcome them, or else try some sieges, keep captures, defend other ones, do rvr missions.
Just like you'd buy now a NEW live daoc account. You'd be level 1 versus a game which is already 10 years old. You can bet you'll see many RR12 in frontier, but that's only natural. Otherwise why are you still playing? Because you love the game, don't you?

I dont get the point, why more lvlers will make Uth RvR better. They will be farmed constantly, as they are farmed in DF now. Ppl dont help in DF, not since they dont want to but they cant. These are stealthers who gank constantly, nothing u can do about it as a visible. The same stealther will just gank at other exp spots. So in reality u ll do less exp/h and be spending rp...So finally noone will go there like now.We need competitive opponents in RvR not victims to farm and make the gap even bigger between ppl doing RvR and ppl trying to get there.

Astealoth wrote:2) Maybe remove battlegrounds entirely. This would very obviously bring a massive amount of interest in the frontiers and a lot less illegal account trading as rr4+ chars would no longer be as worthless as a bag of rocks. You could expand upon the frontier taskmaster system and include some level 40-49 missions/quests with better RP bonuses to make the rr1-rr4 grind easier and more proftable.

This would simply slow down player which want to be 50 as fast as possible. For my case as example, started an Inf since my ranger will become worthless when Old RAs are introduced. My goal was, to get as fast as poissble 50. I left Thid with RR 4.0 without using /xp off. If there were no BGs, I wouldn't be 50 now, since I could not bear this boring DAoC PvE a long time. I would be rather demotavated and, maybe, quited Uthgard.

Maybe these ideas aren't the best, but they're something. Uthgard could really use some major thought on it's RvR systems. None of these fixes would take major development overhauls. They are small tweaks. I say just close the BGs for a few weeks and see what happens. My money is on frontier population tripling.

Maybe the RvR population intitally would be increase, but on long term, I guess, the population would shrink. there are more than one reason why some people avoid endgame RvR. However, they are mostly directed to DAoC itself rather than Uthgard specific problems.

I think it would be a good idea to resurrect the 'Zerg event' - that is something Uthgard is sorely missing. 8vs8 is something that many players don't have the ambition for and instead prefer to stay in BGs and roll new toons over and over. I absolutely think that some 'organized' zerging would get many people into the FZ that would otherwise avoid it. And overall, the server would benefit from accommodating this more 'casual-friendly' playstyle. It gives non-8vs8 players something to look forward to at 50, gets more people into higher RRs so that they may then feel motivated to engage in 8vs8 etc. Alas, this is just not happening ... hence my suggesting with the Zerg event.

Ok, let me try to make it easier to understand as it seems to me that many players do not understand the mechanics and the cohesion of certain mechanics of DAoCs game design principles.

One of the major reasons for Dark Age of Camelots success was the unique RvR system. The majority of players shared one common goal - to become max level, to be decent equipped and to fight for their realm. This means that by game design the player flow was directed into the frontier (endgame RvR). This player flow ensured a satisfying gaming experience by resulting in huge fights. These huge fights or so called Zerg was the backbone of DAoCs RvR success, the source of legendary moments and memories many of us have in common. Some of you are now going to think:" But what about 8vs8 and 1vs1!?". Yes, 8vs8 and 1vs1 RvR existed. Most of the pure 8vs8 fighting was going on in Odins, Hadrians or Breifine<->Collory, but even the most elitist guild groups had to avoid the zerg, or simply joined the zerg, if it was in the realms interest (relic raid).

Taking a closer look on MMORPG development within the last decade, one thing becomes very clear. The development direction was more and more focusing on simplification and solo-playability, climaxing in World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online or for example Aion. The genres development drifted into some sort of "Solo Online Role Playing Game with optional multiplayer content" and everything had to be fast paced and easy to achieve. Fortunately, the first MMO Development Studios understood this issue and are finally heading towards a MMORPG-Rennaissance, yet keeping modern MMO features such as for example PublicQuests.

Talking about Uthgard, battlegrounds offer a complete substitute when it comes to endgame RvR. Actually, guilds exist that are specialised on Thidranki RvR only. Also, many other players prefer the battlegrounds due to a set, maximum difficulty rating - no high RRs, no need to actually group and so on. These two features alone are breaking the basic rvr design principle. The player flow into the frontiers is broken, and thatfor no 'natural enemy' (zerg) of set guild groups can be formed. What remains is a situation of set guild groups roaming around in the frontier, hammering down non-challenging RvR newcomers leading to the RvR newcomers quickly leaving the RvR or reroll a battleground character.

This is the problem Uthgard has currently to deal with. In frontiers leveling and exp bonus benefiting players are only a small part of this package, and those of you who are Uthgard Veterans know that it works well (see Old NF Emain RvR: Wyrm spot <-> Fomors). The listed changes that were announced in early 2010 were not only meant to lure levelers into OF, but to renew the appearance of RvR in a way that repopulates the frontier by simply offering interesting incentives, a more tactical approach while still remaining as 'classic' as possible.

Like Sethor said I think that the tight limits in BG's give them a slight advantage. In Endgame RvR the RR limits are very high so you propably die more often in imbalanced fights than in a BG.

Also endgame is more organized RvR which again can penalize players who don't join these organized groups. The only chance for such a player is running in zerg formations to outnumber the organized groups or playing non visible solo chars. This all depends on a critical mass of similar unskilled low RR players in endgame.

I'm still open for experiments like the mentioned 5 level BG ranges up to 44 or even 35, to see more low ranked players in endgame which can lead to a greater mass in that low rank range.

Sethor wrote:The listed changes that were announced in early 2010 were not only meant to lure levelers into OF, but to renew the appearance of RvR in a way that repopulates the frontier by simply offering interesting incentives, a more tactical approach while still remaining as 'classic' as possible.

Still waiting for a quote where a player was against these announced changes.

These kind of posts like Sethor and Blue ones make me think more and more that staff is simply kidding us. Lol just a bounch of unuseful and well known infos and no answers to real important questions and suggestions from playerbase. I'm sorry but it's simply what i see (still waiting for your opinion about "the custom excuse" Blue). This server is just going in the wrong direction at the moment, maybe gms should play Uthgard RvR a bit before spreading this theoretical and unfounded ideas.

Well I made a suggestion how this could be solved:
- NO XP OFF, NO THID RR CAP!
Result:
- Higher RR in the Frontiers, so Newcommers cannot QQ about that

It wouldnt solve all problems, but it's a start - as most of the people claim that the HighRR factor is the one that weights most.

Sonnenschein wrote:NO THID RR CAP!.

What?? I must have something in my eyes.

Blue wrote:
I'm still open for experiments like the mentioned 5 level BG ranges up to 44 or even 35, to see more low ranked players in endgame which can lead to a greater mass in that low rank range.

This will just lead to less ppl on the server. Casual players dont like Endgame RvR and nerfing the BG´s wont be a sollution. With the recently "fixes" endgame rvr is even worse and taking away the opportunity to get 4L2 before any real rvr will make it even harder for all.

Better to keep focus on improving the endgame. The community is demanding a more intersting end game and u got alot of constructive suggestions how to do it. Ppl atm play BG´s bcs its the most fun RvR u can have on uth atm. Its fast, u can compete without uber templates and pots/charges, zone is small so theres almost always inc. Myself i get bored bcs char cant improve more then 4L2 but i use it much for a complement to pve when i xp a new toon. Xping sucks and XP is very bugged here so there have to be alternatives to pve. That mobs are to weak here saves the server, would be impossible to xp with normal mobs and uthgards bugged XP.

Make Endgame RvR more fun then BG´s and u will se lots of player start to use there 50 4L2 chars again.

Sonnenschein wrote:Well I made a suggestion how this could be solved:
- NO XP OFF, NO THID RR CAP!
Result:
- Higher RR in the Frontiers, so Newcommers cannot QQ about that

It wouldnt solve all problems, but it's a start - as most of the people claim that the HighRR factor is the one that weights most.

Then people will stay forever in thid.

Suicide ftw I remember the live days when we had to jump into death from time to time to get rid of xp so we could stay in bg

Jonah wrote:Xping sucks and XP is very bugged here

XP is in no way bugged (V1.69). Its live like to the point. (Only exception are camp bonuses)

Blue wrote:

Jonah wrote:Xping sucks and XP is very bugged here

XP is in no way bugged (V1.69). Its live like to the point. (Only exception are camp bonuses)

Lies! In a group with some lvl range (dont have to be high), example highest is lvl 16 and lowest lvl 12 the lowest get awful xp, less then from a green solo. Mobs that get killed are red/low purp for the highest in group. I know theres a anti pl code here but it makes it awful to xp with as its very hard. This isnt a high pop server u know and finding realm mates in the exact lvl range isnt easy.
On live u could PL, u cant here!!
NOT Livelike!!!!
Ok, i see the ressons and wont argue against it but it affects normal xping in a very bad way.

One more thing! BaF code is bugges, with normal pulls u easy get 6+ mobs with a fg, so ppl pull with debuffs wasting very usefull group bonus xp.

Add the camp bonus bugg and voila, VERY BUGGED XP!!!!

Ok you are right on this one. 1.53 introduced a wider level range you can group with.

http://support.darkageofcamelot.com/kb/ ... php?id=242

GROUPING AND EXPERIENCE CHANGE

- We've relaxed the rules that govern the experience clamp that occurs when lower level characters group with higher level characters and the group fights monsters deemed unchallenging to the group's total strength. You should now be able to group with a wider range of players in the group without suffering an experience point penalty.

This is not on Uthgard yet. Obviously you refer to that 1.53 change. Will reevaluate that.