I ve never seen that Mythic degraded an item. So if u do that u ve to take care that old items are degraded as well, otherwise u just give old players a big advantage over newer ones.

honestly, that wont be a solution for nothing. tajendi items aren't overpowered at all. trimming them would be like removing the only interesting items on uthgard and it wouldn't help u to appear as a serious authority on this server in my opinion.

don't take it personally but u should better be working on other more important changes/fixes.

Tincho wrote:don't take it personally but u should better be working on other more important changes/fixes.

This is what I'm focused the most of the time but I see the problems with our little custom zones. Its not surprising that we see up to 15 Tajendi raids (often only 6 players per instance) in the evening. Theres surely something imbalanced when the demand to do Tajendi raids repeatedly is that strong.

As someone said before, its easy to build all cap templates with Tajendi items. This is not what I want to see here. There must be compromises in templates. We don't have cap extensions like they existed in ToA so the items are to be considered overpowered. Tajendi is only used for constant farm action as the origial quest is well known now. Nobody seems to complain about that this distracts from RvR too but for dragon raids this is told to be an important problem. Dragon raids happen way less than Tajendi raids, so this argument is at best laughable.

If we accidently had ToA items in Tajendi you would still complain when they had to be trimmed back. This is not new for me. I remember about the bracer fix some time ago due to a bug.

Blue...

Your perspective is one that is skewed. Your stating that since Taj raids happen so much more often than DR's, that it is perceivable that if Taj was less attractive, that dragon raids would increase. That however is simply not the case. While it may increase dragon raids a small amount, it is not equitable to compare the organization of a DR vs. The organization of a Taj raid. Organizing 6-8 people to raid taj is a simple task, one that is easily supported by the server population. Dragon raids are ot so easily supported especially in non-peak hours.

The idea that you would even entertain removing or seriously nerfing Taj items, is the suggestion that we, your server population in fact cannot trust the decisions of the administration. That you, are willing to take our time, endless hours of farming items, or money to buy items, and change it at your whim. The reason Live did not nerf items is not so simple as to say its because they raised theyre stat caps, its also because they, unlike Uthgard respected their playerbase as customers, not valueless users.

Be reminded, we of Uthgard play here because we like the server, we appreciate the staffs work and what they provide us. Please do not belittle us by telling us you are willing to destroy what we have worked for, based off a arbitrary decision thats ill begotten.

It has been years that Taj has bee implemented, I fully believe that if your saying that all your work on Taj was erroneous, and imbalanced the game, that you are fully capable of making an even worse error in judgement by suggesting its removal.

This economy is based off items, and the values of those items. Your suggesting dropping the bottom out of the economy. Whoever said taj items are easy to get is a fool. Some are easy to get, but I have templates that are damn hard to get, that took alot of time and diligent trading. Again to even suggest that you would destroy my years of collecting items, just because you think you made a mistake 2 years ago is insulting. I understand your the admin and I am the player, but my time is just as important as yours. You choose to play a admin, I thank you for that, I choose to play my character...without us players you would admin a empty server...our time...our items...are valuable.

As for the dragon, i dont care if you drop the stone rate, your right, it makes no difference as your drop rate was a off the cuff decision and can be modified to fit the needs of the playerbase.

HOWEVER! This is the first time I have ever seen an admin make a change directly after the request of a player. Most changes and bugfixes take their place in line and are addressed as you have time, I find it funny that the one change immediately made was only requested by one person, and it was a complaint of laziness in leading raids...

Again..I'm not Admin bashing, we need you guys, but we need you to help us, not to make us feel like crap.

My .02

On a side note:

There´s gonna be OF RAs incoming and within that there´s classes loosing abilities make them hardly to compete in RvR ... there´s a roadmap this server is following and right now we´re on a level far from the server goals. There will be EVIL changes and it´s no biggie loosing some custom items, just think about all archers loosing MoS for example. You can´t even retemplate to compensate that!

Take it or leave it

The change on dragons was that fast because I was not sure about the correct amount yet and had the editor still open to change drop rates in a split of a second. I explained it enough. If I had set the respec drop rate to 100x and then after a player response to 90 you would still QQ but it just doesnt matter. Thats the reason why I'm not really motivated to give you any insight into droprates and stuff. Its at our decision what drops and how often.

As for Tajendi, this drives me mad, really. The implementation of Tajendi (or lets better say the drops) was a mistake on a classic setting targetted server. The only way to get rid of the items is to a no longer drop (nld) existing high end drops and insert replacements which are slightly trimmed, item degradation will blend the previous items out over time.

The reason why Mythic constantly increased the utility of their items is on the hand. They want to sell their latest addons and force you into addon zones! This is not the case on Uthgard. We have a fix setting and don't extend any caps in the future. Thats why Uthgard is very sensitive to any improved drops.

I want to remember, Uthgards goal is to be the copy of DAoC classic times. We propably target the 1.69 patch. I didnt want to be the bad guy to stop Tajendi development because of this concept but for the drops I had too much trust in the devs that they don't devalue classic DAoC items and don't make it possible to build easy all cap templates.

Blue wrote:Thats why dragon and Legion hold the respecs exclusively now. I see no problem in it.

=> Yes! I never complained about that and understand the intention you had while implementing this.

Blue wrote:When item degradation works people will have to think twice what drop they put in their template.

Ye! And that's why I think there is no reason to take the drops out of the game.

Blue wrote:Also there is no problem when certain items no longer drop or drop modified.

Depends! Words can't describe how angry & sad I would be if I would have to renew like 5-6 Templates from one day to the other!
The Question is: Will the drops remain on the characters as they are or will they be modified/deleted aswell?
=> With the new degradation system I wouldn't change the old drops, since they will wear down somedays and be gone - people will have to renew their template but not from one day to the other...
I mean think about it! I'm just a example but most of my RvR-ready Characters would need complete new Equip before I can do RvR again.
In my case: I can log all crafters and prolly together with my boyfriend I would completed new templates in like 1-2 days but think about people that can't farm & craft all stuff needed in few days!

Blue wrote: Mythic does that all the time but in most cases they increase the stats. Our server can't do that as we never introduce ToA or certain cap extensions to push the limits.

Increasing is better than decreasing
No - well its good that on Uthgard you don't need to reach new caps and stuff like in all new MMORPG's - thats the Mainreason I stay here. My chars don't get outdated when I can't play 1-2 month

On the one hand you complain about astronomic prices and then you make them on your own. If you dont decrease current items, the old ones will just sky rock. As you may know, degrading of juwelery has no influence on it if it does not ve + skill on it. So at least juwelery will never loose its value and will never be out of the game.

Sonnenschein wrote:

Blue wrote:Also there is no problem when certain items no longer drop or drop modified.

Depends! Words can't describe how angry & sad I would be if I would have to renew like 5-6 Templates from one day to the other!
The Question is: Will the drops remain on the characters as they are or will they be modified/deleted aswell?

I thought I was clear. We always try to not modify existing items ingame when they are not bugged. You know it comes with pro and cons. It would be too hard for existing template users to login and see their template changed. We had such thing only one time when we changed the bracer. So it comes down to item degrade for older items. Mythic took a similar approach for changing existing items. Most propably they renamed it if stats changed.

pweet wrote:On the one hand you complain about astronomic prices and then you make them on your own. If you dont decrease current items, the old ones will just sky rock. As you may know, degrading of juwelery has no influence on it if it does not ve + skill on it. So at least juwelery will never loose its value and will never be out of the game.

I did never complain about astronomic prices, the initial poster and others did. The high prices are just the symptom for inflation like in real world. It was already explained and I won't repeat me now.

For jewelry you could see a custom change (at 70%, influence from stat bonuses will be halved), as you noticed it never fades out of the game.

Blue wrote:The change on dragons was that fast because I was not sure about the correct amount yet and had the editor still open to change drop rates in a split of a second. I explained it enough. If I had set the respec drop rate to 100x and then after a player response to 90 you would still QQ but it just doesnt matter. Thats the reason why I'm not really motivated to give you any insight into droprates and stuff. Its at our decision what drops and how often.

Understood /agreed

Blue wrote:As for Tajendi, this drives me mad, really. The implementation of Tajendi (or lets better say the drops) was a mistake on a classic setting targetted server.

This is true..it was a mistake. I dont think there is anyone out there tat thinks Uthgard is a classic /non-custom server. I understand that was the original goal, but it seems times have changed. Often times businesses start with a business model in mind, and as that business evolves it drifts away from that original model. This does not make it any less successful, it just makes if different than planned. Please dont paradigm yourself into thinking that purely classic is the only functional model for Uthgard. I dont think the players want that either, some customizations, with the heart of classic DAOC are fully acceptable. Maybe its time you evolved the business model of uthgard.

Blue wrote:The only way to get rid of the items is to a no longer drop (nld) existing high end drops and insert replacements which are slightly trimmed, item degradation will blend the previous items out over time.

So are you saying deleting or nerfing the items that have already dropped? Or letting them naturally decay? I agree, that changing future drops may work, but retroactively changing dropped items is a mistake.

Blue wrote:The reason why Mythic constantly increased the utility of their items is on the hand. They want to sell their latest addons and force you into addon zones! This is not the case on Uthgard. We have a fix setting and don't extend any caps in the future. Thats why Uthgard is very sensitive to any improved drops.

I think we are both correct on this. It is all marketing and profiteering.

Blue wrote:I want to remember, Uthgards goal is to be the copy of DAoC classic times. We propably target the 1.69 patch. I didnt want to be the bad guy to stop Tajendi development because of this concept but for the drops I had too much trust in the devs that they don't devalue classic DAoC items and don't make it possible to build easy all cap templates.

I think at heart this is true, but classic DAOC still had issues, there are improvements that can be made without losing focus on those key values of classic. With or without taj items its easy to make a rocking template, taj makes it a bit easier to cap those classes like thanes and skalds and sb's with lots of specs. But the fact remains with or without taj the game balance effect will be neutral. I forsee crafting and sc'ing being much more valuable without taj.

Heres one to consider also. Legion drops are garbage. The procs are so worthless that nobody uses them at all. Legion is a large boss raid mob, dont you think that his drops should at least be as good as the princes? Focus on crap like that. Flawless enscorcelled blade of power procs a 10 second 5dps damage sheild. What a pos. Who would ever template legion weapons?

Make other raids more interesting, now the only reason to raid legion is for respec stones. That really sux.

In any case, thanks for the response Blue.

Blue wrote:It would be too hard for existing template users to login and see their template changed.

+1

Well sometimes...Blue ^^ (You say smth and then don't mean it for sure but I always start worry XD)

=> Maybe Item decrease will change something in Tajendifarming since people don't build up their templates with it so much anymore.

Well some Item's from Tajendi like S/C-Charge maybe OP - but!!!!!!!!!!! The S/C-Charge existed from Legion before and it was even harder to aquire it and less players had this BIG advantage over a majority! The charge was even more powerful than it is now!

Some Idea for nerfing Tajendi weapons & Items is cut down charges/procs (like Dex/Qui Debuff on Weapons) - without ruining templates
But for S/C-Charge - now you may complain about it is sold for like 100-60 Platin which is QUITE A LOT - but in times only Legion dropped it the prices were not higher or lower - no one ever sold it XD

Ohh Blue is way over his head now.
Talking about nerfing an entire zoon and make custom changes to destroy old items faster. Can u sense the "classic feeling" ?!

First, its EASY to cap most templates without any tajendi items, lol most classes can do it with 99% stuff. If you want ppl to not be able to cap stuff and have to consider what to take in templates u have to introduce ToA stats and overcaps.

The resson for so many Taj raids are:
1) RVR sucks atm and instead ppl do the most challengeing PVE they can find.
2) Taj items sell for nice plats specially some of them and ppl want plats for templates etc.
3) U can do it with no planning and a FG, dragon/legion takes more planning and ppl to do.

Besides the encounter must be up and the chanse of getting any loot from a random will be less the more ppl attending. With a FG taj raid, the encounter is always up and the chanses of getting something usefull is large. Sure it takes more time but it will be worth it.

A magical solution presents itself:

Remove all ToAjendi items but leave the zone, take bets on how long people will continue going there to have "fun".

For leveling? Sure always

TOAjendi - what a joke... Cap is cap - with or without TOAjendi
Btw I like the weapons from there due to the glowieeffects

Blue wrote:
Its not surprising that we see up to 15 Tajendi raids (often only 6 players per instance) in the evening. Theres surely something imbalanced when the demand to do Tajendi raids repeatedly is that strong.

Tajendi is only used for constant farm action as the origial quest is well known now. Nobody seems to complain about that this distracts from RvR too but for dragon raids this is told to be an important problem. Dragon raids happen way less than Tajendi raids, so this argument is at best laughable.

I find what say here is incorrect, a Tajendi raids need 6 people & can be set up in less then 1h & done in 2h (all 1 drop).
Also I'm pretty sure that those 15 raids are done mainly by those 6 people.
Eg. Goupill does sometimes 3 raids on a day, 1 in the morning, 1 in the afternoon & 1 in the evening.

DR's need 16 people or on public raids (45+) up to 30 people. Depending if its an alliance or a public & on what time of day it is done & if its pre organised, the time to build up can between 30mins & 2h.
Then you still need to run to the dragon lair, which on it self can be frustrating asswell, then killing the Dragon takes some time too & then the never ending /random 100 missery afterwards.

So all in all missing 6 players in RvR for 2h's, who most likely just logged out RvR due to not being able to play RvR like they wanted too.

Or missing 16 till 30 players for a weekly/daily raid in prime time for anything between 2h & 4h is a big difference.

However a nice way to put a halt to the flood of Tajendi items might be that a toon can't enter Tajendi at all (leader or not) for 24h after has been in Tajendi. Making Tajendi more 'special' again & less of a quick way to get some items to sell for 10p a piece.

Furthermore degrading items & stripping charges/procs away is not something I'm in favor off, if you really want lesser people using Tajendi items to cap instead of Dragon/DF items (cause making temps without Taj2 items really isn't that hard) drop the drop chance per mob in Taj2 so, instead 1 mob being 1 drop, you have 1drop/1,5mob or something like that.