Disdain wrote:You point toa thread made by an OF fanatic who's actually regretting voting for OF and little problems with agramon that could have easily been solved. OF doesn't have those, OF is flawed as a whole. Everything. 3 huge zones with 12 subzones and most of them unusable due to terrible terrain design, the porting timers, long runs, poor keep/siege design. There's absolutely nothing good about OF.

First off, I've never regretted my vote for OF. No need to make claims about someone's opinion when you really don't know it, just to attempt to 'strengthen' your immensely exaggerated claims.

Second of all, I think it's quite funny that when people are pro-OF, even though they disagree with the current implementation (which shows that they don't want OF at all costs), THEY are the so called 'fanbois', they are the oh-so negative voters who are willing to sacrifice all what is good (so called NF) just to get their own precious nostalgic kick back at the cost of everyone else's RvR experience.

Your post right here however is a perfect example of why it's actually the other way around. Even though there might be some who fit the fundamentalist view on OF, the vast majority who prefers OF isn't really satisfied with what we have now. However it seems that especially the players so radically AGAINST OF are the real 'fanbois', who make ridiculous claims such as "There's absolutely nothing good about OF". Everything that even touches OF is bad and we should get NF back instantly, that's basicly how you seem to think. Seems to me that that's the only closeminded fanboi-ism around here to be quite honest. Allthough there's only a few of them, they sure can be loud...

Sure, there are advantages to NF, but they surely don't cancel out the advantages of OF. Let me clarify my vote for OF.

When I voted for OF I didn't vote for the basic OF we have now. I voted for an OF with a lot more potential, a lot more force to support todays gaming experience. A vote for OF with improved player influx (porting revamp), worthy XP spots and solo/smallman opportunities. Basicly, my vote for OF, was a vote for what we had in NF, but simply using the old maps instead. You might think I'm asking too much, but basicly if you guys say: "bring NF back", I'm sure the first version of NF you want back is the one we had before OF, with instant ports, xp spots and smallman/solo opportunities. Basicly the same as what I'm voting for with OF. That's why I say OF hasn't really gotten a decent chance to prove itself yet. The moment we've seen an OF with what I stated before and STILL see it fail so badly, I'm willing to admit changing back to NF would actually be better for this server. But as long as that doesn't happen, I'm still all for improving OF rather than anything else.

The sad thing is, that with none of these elements are actually present in the current form of OF, it creates an opportunity for all those who can't live without NF where argumenting to bring back NF is so much easier, so they grab it with both (or more, to exaggerate things even further) hands and bash OF as hard as they can. Some others just want NF back because they think that OF is unfixable because we've seen it in such a poor state so far.


Now the largest advantage OF (and Old RAs) have to offer, is the immense playerbase potential. This is what players generally forget every time they discuss OF/NF and don't realise how strong this factor actually is. A server with Old RAs and OF is basicly what such a largae part of the DAoC community was looking out for ever since Origins came up. The fact that it never came, and possibly will never come makes Uthgard's potential with Old RAs and OF so immense that it can easily become a server with a playerbase up to 3.000 players. If you think I'm exaggerating, I don't blame you, but mark my words. If you make the right adjustments to Old RAs and OF to balance them and shape them in a way that supports a generally improved modern gameplay experience, this server can grow to be the actual Origins, with the actual playerbase that would come with it. Uthgard already has a few of those basic measures taken, such as no BBs, no dual logging, and nerfed PLing, which are fundamental to keep the player influx's potential to this server alive by giving everyone who starts at lvl 1 equal chances. The part where Uthgard still lacks (the part where players should be motivated to stay on Uthgard) is end-game RvR. Both are immensely important, which is why the adjustments to OF and Old RAs are vital. Attracting new players is great, but it's worthless if you can't keep them interested in the part they are actually interested in.


If you want to sacrifice that kind of potential for improved keeps and waterfights then that's great for you, but I prefer a Classic server, with a Classic server's real potential.



Just my 2 cts.

PS: @Disdain: you might not want to be so hostile towards the staff if you want them to do things for you, I really don't think that will get you any further.

Zarkor wrote:First off, I've never regretted my vote for OF.

...

When I voted for OF I didn't vote for the basic OF we have now.

Derp.

Disdain wrote:

Zarkor wrote:First off, I've never regretted my vote for OF.

...

When I voted for OF I didn't vote for the basic OF we have now.

Derp.

NF = win, everything else = derp. Way to prove my point dude.

No just pointing out how you indeed dislike OF even though you wrote a wall of text trying to make it look like you like it. You like it in your own fantasyland where expers are aplenty, rainbow unicorns roam the lands and rps are flowing for everyone and everyone lives in harmony etc. too bad that won't ever happen and we're stuck with this, you call "basic" OF, I just call OF a flawed outdated zone and no matter how many minor custom changes or tweaks you have in mind you won't see it any better. OF needs drastic custom changes in order to be any good and that's something the staff is highly against.

Read what he writes. The current basic state of OF is not what he wished for.

He is absolutely right, OF is still in its basic beginning states. Its still the first implementation of OF we made. We just added horse routes after this. We currently evaluate changes to OF internally and hope to come up with some changes soon. AMG has a bit too much focus at the moment.

Disdain, really, I can't see your whining anymore. We have a more populated RvR than we had in NF. I wonder how you can't see that. Propably you stay in the same place (AMG) all the time and then complain about stealthers and adders. What you obviously want is a less populated RvR like NF so you can have isolated fights with 8vs8 at best.

I can understand the point about giving it a chance with modifications but in all honesty it has been almost 1,5 year since OF was released. I'm tired of waiting on something that will happen "soon". I'm tired of not knowing what exactly is changing so I have nothing to look forward to. I'm tired of the same two thousand forum posts on the subject that are futile as hell since we hear very little from the people that make the calls.

NF doesn't need another X-months/years of wait for it to be viable or to be installed and it is fundamentally better undmodified and whomever disagrees with that has little clue about the matter.

Zarkor wrote:

Disdain wrote:

Zarkor wrote:First off, I've never regretted my vote for OF.

...

When I voted for OF I didn't vote for the basic OF we have now.

Derp.

NF = win, everything else = derp. Way to prove my point dude.

zarkors legendary textwalls are back

Implement at the same time OF and NF XD

Have no fear fellow NF supporters, I'm currently in the process of hooking up a Lorem Ipsum generator to my forum account which will enable our side to be an active and equal participant in this new form of discourse, which has replaced the once popular "Clear and Concise" way of posting and has emerged as the dominant form of dialog. The Wall Wars have begun, and it's first victims are common sense and logic.


In the meantime, riddle me this:

In NF - people complained about NF. But! The majority wanted NF to *stay* and get *fixed*.
In OF - people complain about OF. But! The majority wants OF *gone*. As in, "the hell away".

Why then does the staff see only this: "In both NF and OF people complain. Lol those silly players are all teh same xD."?


P.S. Voted for OF. Would like my vote back. Thx.

Nymeros wrote:In NF - people complained about NF. But! The majority wanted NF to *stay* and get *fixed*.
In OF - people complain about OF. But! The majority wants OF *gone*. As in, "the hell away".

NF had several serious attempts to get *fixed*, yet it still wasn't what it should be. OF has had none so far...

And by the way, the majority of forum poster opinions =/= the majority of player opinions. Especially since a group that means to complain will always bring out a louder voice than one that doesn't, even though they might be a minority. And another thing, not everyone who criticises OF as we have it now is therefore pro NF.

Blue wrote:We have a more populated RvR than we had in NF. I wonder how you can't see that.

Becuase I don't have the tools to see your online numbers per zone.

Correction: you have a more populated RvR area. Bigger and safer for expers, a lot more keeps for guard tasks. None of those people are actually rvring. Assuming that every person logged in the frontiers is rvring is just wrong. That's just like saying every person logged inside darkness falls is rvring and everyone knows that's not the case.

And you are wrong about one more thing, I don't just stand around amg. When RVRING I look in places where I expect other people show up who also want to rvr. That means emain and breifine. Adds are easy to get because of the single route design of OF, yes amg is the easiest place to get them but there's nowhere you can go to really. There's no such thing as "roaming" that existed in agramon while in OF you just follow a single path every time, same one everyone else does because you don't have any choice.

Disdain wrote:

Blue wrote:We have a more populated RvR than we had in NF. I wonder how you can't see that.

Correction: you have a more populated RvR area. Bigger and safer for expers, a lot more keeps for guard tasks. None of those people are actually rvring.

They are RvRing. RvR != 8vs8. If there is a guard tasker people will get a guard spam message -> there will be someone trying to kill this guard task noob -> RvR action.
Maybe you should start to think outside your box.

No they're not rvring, they're killing monsters in a rvr zone. I already explained it with the df analogy. Simply being in a rvr zone doesn't mean one is rvring. The person killing the "guard task noob" like you said, now he is out looking to rvr.

Blue wrote:Read what he writes. The current basic state of OF is not what he wished for.

He is absolutely right, OF is still in its basic beginning states. Its still the first implementation of OF we made. We just added horse routes after this. We currently evaluate changes to OF internally and hope to come up with some changes soon. AMG has a bit too much focus at the moment.

Disdain, really, I can't see your whining anymore. We have a more populated RvR than we had in NF. I wonder how you can't see that. Propably you stay in the same place (AMG) all the time and then complain about stealthers and adders. What you obviously want is a less populated RvR like NF so you can have isolated fights with 8vs8 at best.

how can you claim that OF is more populated than NF? Just by watching the numbers of players from your administrator channel? OF is 10 times bigger than agramon, so it feels like there is far less action than in NF..i played both on all european daytimes very active, so i think i can have an objective view. The percentage of players actively rvring is the same...theres just 400 more players average than it was to agra times, but even this is no proof.... there also has never been a fall down of players in NF times like it is nowadays...people come for a few weeks and leave again, this has never been that obvious in NF. Since the first OF boom player numbers fall, even winter couldnt help it...and again, its not like theres no new people coming..just theres so many leaving aswell.

Still my opinion is that a backchange to NF wouldnt solve the problem, agramon had (thanks to some custom changes) a better reputation but it would be way to small if people on uthgard would actually start doing some rvr... OF simply needs some custom changes which would be pretty easy to apply ... as stated hundreds of times and supported thousands of times..like instaport and shorter runways... even know of some gms that support this ideas but yet nothing happened...

my simple hope is that until 4. march rvr revamp will be applied and actually include necessary and good changes. otherwise i would have to pay for MMO's again

Disdain wrote:No they're not rvring, they're killing monsters in a rvr zone. I already explained it with the df analogy. Simply being in a rvr zone doesn't mean one is rvring. The person killing the "guard task noob" like you said, now he is out looking to rvr.

Rvr= all zones, rvr=keeps, rvr= ambush, rvr=zerg, rvr=zerged, rvr=pug, rvr=guards, rvr=relics, rvr= roam, rvr= camp amg, you can dislike all this kind of fights , but its all daoc can offer, and now, we have a lot more fights than ever, check albion sometimes, we meet every night more than 4 group of hib/mid there, zerging or doing 8vs8,keeps, anything, thats the fun part , you dont know what you gonna meet, if you go to amg in emain youll get the same over and over, deal with that.