Hopefully this will not come true. Since the most active player dont match with my aims and probably dont match with the aims of most casual players.

Disdain wrote:I did, and it was a lot better than OF is. OF emain amg sucks, you're only looking to get your fight destroyed by lots of stealthers there. Not the kind of enemy I'm looking for rather have a fair fight. I'm not sure if you ever played.

Then I don't know why you can't remember. Maybe you was one of the ones who were running in high RR FG's wiping everything on its way leading to other players to logout or come to the forums to whine about that situation or relog to BG's. Smallman was a big big problem in Agra. Also we had to introduce kill messages in NF so there was at least a hint were enemies are. Agramon and NF had big problems to find enemies. Only introducing kill messages with location, high leveraged XP spots and instant teleports to Agramon camps helped. I'm not here since yesterday and lived through all that and I know what to expect from players.

You complain about OF, others complained REPEATEDLY about NF regardless of our improvements there. When we would change back to NF without instant teleports I bet 90% of players will complain again in short time because it will not be the Agramon BG they expected. Seen this, seen that. And don't tell me there were better keeps as I get repeatedly told from guys like you that keeps are unimportant at all.

You should not assume that your play style and preferences are the same as of other players.

Razzer wrote:I remember there was a "Player Council" in the past where active players of the realms can discuss (intern) about situations ingame who actually play a lot.
Unfortunately it's a dream that the staff and GMs can both support the server and can actively participate with their player chars.

Active how in RVR with high lwrp?
IF so they most likely would ask for the same old same old. (OF works for them)
Active in BGs, pve, have low RR, many high skilled crafters, lower lwrp and many lvl 50?
I really doubt this would solve much, players that don't like end game here will most likely ask for return of NF. (OF doesn't work for them)
I personally don't know how to define active players. Many play on all 3 realms with more than 1 account on reach realm.

In game questions like they did on live ?
How about a choice say for 1 week or a few days, could both OF and NF be used at the same time ?
I am clueless as to what this involves regarding coding or DB.
Just throwing ideas out there.

Blue wrote:I'm not here since yesterday and lived through all that

By lived you mean read a few whineposts on the forums. I PLAYED through all that. No offense but I know a hell lot better what rvr on uthgard is like than you do. Playing gives you a lot better perspective than selective forum reading (by selective I mean that you consider every form of criticism you disagree with as a flame).

Ithiggi wrote:I really doubt this would solve much, players that don't like end game here will most likely ask for return of NF. (OF doesn't work for them)

It didn't work for them in NF too. Theres no reason to glorify NF over OF. Now I see complains from players like Disdain, and giving them NF back there will be complains from others. It's always the same, some players think we should change something the way they think it would be good for the server and if its finally made, we get the same old whine stories on the forums as everytime before. Some players were happy with NF others were not, especially removing instant porters lead to a big complain wave. Its a lot more complicated to support different play styles especially for small man, random groups and solos.

I suggest to wait for OF improvements and stop to hijack every thread into a OF/NF discussion. This leads to nothing.

Put it to another vote.

I'm curious to see of the player base would vote now that they are using OF. I still think OF would work if there was a higher population, as it sits now, if you have to add a horse for emain, then that should stand on how a low population we have with a huge dynamic zone which doesn't fit for the player size on this server. Players hover in BG's because the size is small, easier to find action. NF feels like a bigger extension of that not so vast that you have to find another player takeing a keep. NF also was better tactically then having to slam groups into a mile-gate.

Now taking a keep in OF is almost no point, by the time you hear its under attack and arrive, the opposing realm claimed it and moved on. To much distance even to defend with this server size. A bigger player population would be out in OF and would have a higher chance keep defending.

I know that NF will never come back due to the fact that the time being spent on old RA's. And im not sure if old RA's would work well with NF.... Still NF had teleport which was nice if all the towers around were claimed. Made it easier to defend a attack and made the battles huge IMO. In NF if a group or groups could not take a keep due to defending, they would leave and take out a tower and draw the defending group out. It was great not knowing if it was a trap or a chance to crush them.

Keeps in OF now are being taken for DF with little or no opposition in defending. If a realm wants DF open they do it, its never because DF could not be opened for the fact of to many players defending. Relic keeps are the exception. It came down to player numbers on taking the keep at the time and how many realms can flip the keeps in the fastest time, again with little or no defense.

9 keeps per realm in OF vs 6 per realm in NF? And on Uthgard there was 4 usable or 2? I think when Uthgard ran NF. Someone will correct me I'm sure. Still adding more keeps takes longer to find action/raiding in this player size with OF map size then it did with NF. For me... NF keep taking felt like what OF Relic Raid was. IMO, I'm sure its varied from player to player.

I don't remember Argamon on live I must have left before it was added. I first went to the zone here in Uthgard. I remember taking a boat in live, and ride threw a huge ocean zone with nothing, just to get to another realm in NF.

NF or OF is for RVR, Argamon is for exp/rvr, if that's what you want then that's what DF was for.

I suggest to wait for OF improvements and stop to hijack every thread into a OF/NF discussion

OF will always be OF regardless of improvements or changes.......
as i wrote, OF is not only a map ..its a rvr-system itself. you cant change the whole system. sure u can make improvements. but the system itself will always stay.. and exactly this system forms the whole rvr activity. with improvements u CANNOT bring back the fun that NF brought.
e.g. you cannot bring back such nice Keep-fights .. u cannot bring back fights on bridges, in towers or in water.. and so on..
and when you think all whine only about instant port.... thats wrong in my opinion.. i dont need instant port... when i know i can have fun in RVR i gladly wait.

I started on uth when they announced that of will come.

So i had the chance to see the last month of NF/Agra rvr here and it's a pure lie that rvr population was bigger. It was not even half the people doing rvr like it's now. You could hardly form one single hibgroup.

On the other hand after 1 year OF i begin to miss NF. In OF you recognize the flaws NF had. But will NF be really better or will just Agra become the new emain? It's also a palyermade problem that rvr beside emain 8vs8 is hardly possible.

Even though i would likem to play NF again im hopefully waititng for the announced rvr revamp. Why not wait for the promised changes before we cry for "change rvr zone"?

OF with warmap, rvr dungeons and some other tweaks can still be an awesome rvr zone.

I would actually go as far as saying that implementing realmwide keepraid messages and doubling the amount of mods at OF mobspots in addition to halving their respawntime would already make a huge difference to OF RVR. Yes, RVR not 8vs8!

Disdain wrote:

Blue wrote:I'm not here since yesterday and lived through all that

By lived you mean read a few whineposts on the forums. I PLAYED through all that. No offense but I know a hell lot better what rvr on uthgard is like than you do. Playing gives you a lot better perspective than selective forum reading (by selective I mean that you consider every form of criticism you disagree with as a flame).

cry me an ocean... you play every day? Must be a differrent server. RvR is just awesome the last weeks. Better than it ever was on agramon, even with insta port and killmsg.
Yesterday in hadrians wall (not emain, hadrians!)... we did not manage to bring a good enough grp for emain so we went hadrians and we found there: 4 FG mids, 2 FG hibs, 3 FG albs, all more or less PUG grps running there for hours. Keep raids, everything that is soo non existing according to you
while in broad there where still messages about hib zerg and fg albs here and there in emain. About 12 FGs out in little small agramon... yeah that must be fun

Maybe it is not so much fun for a 8vs8 grp farming lowbies anymore, 'cause the low rr grp start to add each other when you farm them too often... but you won't get that back with agramon, it would even get worse.
It is just more players in endgame rvr, so more adding less nice fights. Which is just a sign of improving endgame rvr.

we still have enough nice and fair 8v8 fights over the evening, all i can advise is not to care too much about adds for your own fun.
Some fights we loose 'cause of adds, some fights we win 'cause of adds, some fights we add others we don't, that is just daoc, and it's fun

holsten-knight wrote:less nice fights. Which is just a sign of improving endgame rvr.

just your definiton of nice fights of course... farming low rr pugs with a high rr set grp and the fight does not get addet

Speak for yourself, you're the one hunting shabby keeptaking lowbie pugs in hadrian's also I never played in a setgroup on uthgard, let alone a high rr one.

Disdain wrote:

holsten-knight wrote:less nice fights. Which is just a sign of improving endgame rvr.

Ah ok now we see what you want. Running 8vs8 leet RvR all day long without anyone adding. Imo you should hope that NF will never come back. Cause your nice Agramon will be filled up with tons of players - hf finding a 8vs8

Celteen wrote:

Disdain wrote:

holsten-knight wrote:less nice fights. Which is just a sign of improving endgame rvr.

Ah ok now we see what you want. Running 8vs8 leet RvR all day long without anyone adding. Imo you should hope that NF will never come back. Cause your nice Agramon will be filled up with tons of players - hf finding a 8vs8

It was easier then than it is now. Actually adds during NF were incredibly rare, it basically didn't exist until the crossrealm kill messages were introduced. Agramon rules.