The only way to deal with it is to never group these classes again. It takes away from the game without any reason when it is so easy to fix.

By your logic an insta kill ability with 3k range and no reuse timer would be fine, too. "Just be faster"

The need to group a NS class alone makes the game worse than it could be with a simple fix.

Jarysa wrote:The only way to deal with it is to never group these classes again. It takes away from the game without any reason when it is so easy to fix.

By your logic an insta kill ability with 3k range and no reuse timer would be fine, too. "Just be faster"

The need to group a NS class alone makes the game worse than it could be with a simple fix.

Did you ever see a ability like this on live? Its live like so I dont care about some wired argumentation with not live like spells.
Sure you have to group a NS class, like you have to grp a mezz class, a healer class, a speed class etc.

So your only reason why it should be that way is because it once was that way on live.

NEWSFLASH: It sucked that way and NS cure and hybrid det were introduced.

KaiserReto wrote:

Maidrion wrote:So it's safe to say that most people, with some exceptions, think nearsight and hybrids should be addressed.
On the other hand there's the staff announcement that they will not alter them untill they've been tried.

So I'm wondering how long this trial period will take. 2 Weeks? 1 Month? 6 Months? Does the staff acknowledge these issues.
Any word from someone that makes the decisions or has insight in the discussion would be appreciated.

Why should anyone have a closer look on Hbyrids. They had no det, so deal with it or reroll. No need to open the box.
NS is also fine like it is. Just be faster than the enemie Eld/RM/Cabba. Where is the problem?

Wow thats some bad logic, just "DEAL WITH IT". Let's just completely overlook the gross imbalances and the permanent effect it could have on things.

I think there have been plenty of solid arguments, within this thread alone, that answer your "Where is the problem?" question, just look back through the thread please.

KaiserReto wrote:

Maidrion wrote:So it's safe to say that most people, with some exceptions, think nearsight and hybrids should be addressed.
On the other hand there's the staff announcement that they will not alter them untill they've been tried.

So I'm wondering how long this trial period will take. 2 Weeks? 1 Month? 6 Months? Does the staff acknowledge these issues.
Any word from someone that makes the decisions or has insight in the discussion would be appreciated.

Why should anyone have a closer look on Hbyrids. They had no det, so deal with it or reroll. No need to open the box.
NS is also fine like it is. Just be faster than the enemie Eld/RM/Cabba. Where is the problem?

The PROBLEM (and yes it's a massive one) has been addressed over and over and over -oh and did I say "over" yet?- again. It's clueless, selfish and unaffected (for whatever reason such as you don't RvR, you don't play hybrid classes in grps, you don't play a caster, you just suck, etc etc..) people like you that shouldn't even be mentioning the term balance since you CLEARLY know nothing about it whatsoever. Asking "where is the problem?" is simply acknowledging that.

To the point; yes, most reasonable players (as we know from the removed poll) know that NS should be addressed, same with hybrids. Hell, even Mythic knew it...

Zarkor wrote:To the point; yes, most reasonable players (as we know from the removed poll) know that NS should be addressed, same with hybrids. Hell, even Mythic knew it...

Well all I care about is having a classic like server. If there are imbalances - again just be quicker - well however. Its about having a classic server, not about having a custom server.

I bet you never got past rr2 on "classic" live.

KaiserReto wrote:

Zarkor wrote:To the point; yes, most reasonable players (as we know from the removed poll) know that NS should be addressed, same with hybrids. Hell, even Mythic knew it...

Well all I care about is having a classic like server. If there are imbalances - again just be quicker - well however. Its about having a classic server, not about having a custom server.

So you would like a server that is near empty due to imbalances not getting fixed but 100% classic more than a server that is 95-98% classic but with over 1.5k players?

In fact, having mechanics slightly altered to improve the overal balance and gameplay experience will make this server more classic than it ever was simply by attracting more players. One of the most important aspects of CLASSIC is having A WELL POPULATED server. Nobody seems to realise that you can not copy old classic and expect the same numbers on top of that. Today, copying like that will only result in people LEAVING, rather than joining.

Think about that please...

Uthgard is well populated... in pve ;p

Zarkor wrote:So you would like a server that is near empty due to imbalances not getting fixed but 100% classic more than a server that is 95-98% classic but with over 1.5k players?

Well with OF population increased or decreased?

KaiserReto wrote:

Zarkor wrote:So you would like a server that is near empty due to imbalances not getting fixed but 100% classic more than a server that is 95-98% classic but with over 1.5k players?

Well with OF population increased or decreased?

OF was a nice carrot dangling in front of everyone's nose and it attracted up to 1k players. It was only till people noticed how rotten the carrot actually was that people were fine with it.

To be honest, OF did draw players, but the bad implementation chased a LOT of them, whereas a GOOD attractive factor STAYS attractive. Same will happen with Old RAs if you implement them without adressing the imbalances; it will attract new players, but it will drive them away just as fast. It is only by proper implementation, balance and gameplay experience that people will stay AND urge friends/others to come play there aswell. What's happening now is the opposite, people are DIScouraging players from coming here even though the rotten carrot is still just a carrot for those who don't know better yet.

You're oversimplifying things a lot you know....

The real trick is who gets beat up with the old frontiers realm abilities stick. And who gets love from the New frontiers realm abilities or benfits of later patches. The hybrids will want NF determination, the assassins will want NF viper, casters will want NF purge, archers will want NF mastery of stealth, Healers, clerics and druids will want later patch Cure Nearsight, light tanks will want NF charge.

The list can keep going and going everyone having point of view that their class can not function or survive with out such and such ability. Or even people will complain that class Z got X NF or later patch ability I can not compete against it so I need ability X from NF or later patch to be able to compete against them.

It really boils down to in the end there will be winners and losers when it comes down to old frontiers realm abilities and later patch abilities. Will characters like my thane be hurt badly? Yes. Making a class that doesn't get as many group to even less wanted. There will be many classes less wanted and a few more wanted even more, but that seems inevitable.

Some things could be done to offset the pain by taking up a new roll as maybe small man or solo spec in old frontier ra's could even spec a realm ability much higher than normal to gain more of it's benefit in a group setting. But this isn't really possible with all the prerequisites for many of the ra's. If prerequisites were removed it could make room for better and stronger ra's at a lower realm rank. But it could make high realm rank players even stronger. But that is how it should be they did play their characters to that rank to get the goodies. So balance in realm rank will never happen, only a pipe dream.

I think removing prerequisites will go a long ways to ease the pain of old frontiers RA's but it is by no means a silver bullet some class or multiple classes will come out on the losing end of loss of realm abilities. This is inevitable as you can't<ok you could> love up one and not the other because everyone who plays the class Z that didn't get love will cry foul and want X and X some will quit if they don't get X or may quit cuz class Z got X.

So what do you do to be FAIR? I remember old frontier abilies they could be pretty brutal in the cool of timers. Some groups would sit at Apk or Mpk waiting for RA's to come up in a half hour dunno where hibs hid I was a mid lol. I do expect this habit to come back again. I don't know what Is fair my suggestions for class abilities from NF ra's and later patches would be biased based on the classes I play.

My 2 copper.

KaiserReto wrote:

Zarkor wrote:To the point; yes, most reasonable players (as we know from the removed poll) know that NS should be addressed, same with hybrids. Hell, even Mythic knew it...

Well all I care about is having a classic like server. If there are imbalances - again just be quicker - well however. Its about having a classic server, not about having a custom server.

Which version do you call classic ?

Actually for me Old RA will be just fine. I was wise enough pushing a char which will definetly benefit greatfully of Old RA So maybe i ll farm u waiting in mezz/ns/disease once in a while then, when u desperately hit your purge button.

pweet wrote:Actually for me Old RA will be just fine. I was wise enough pushing a char which will definetly benefit greatfully of Old RA So maybe i ll farm u waiting in mezz/ns/disease once in a while then, when u desperately hit your purge button.

So you should give up your char that you love and which you raised from lvl 1 to rr6L/7L/8L because it won't get grps anymore?
I have a vision of Hibernia with only 3 classes, Bard, Druid, BM...