Question, why don't you just copy the parry formula with an additional 5% base chance (so classes without shield spec still block sometimes)? Both parry and block are defined by the same parameters...

Disdain wrote:Question, why don't you just copy the parry formula with an additional 5% base chance (so classes without shield spec still block sometimes)? Both parry and block are defined by the same parameters...

Propably similar to our old formula which blocked too less and was therefore bugged. It doesn't solve anything. Sorry. The attackers is still not considered then.

I do know that finding the live blockformula is no easy task.

Blue wrote:As for the clerics block rate. I looked up the excel sheet and it was a 10% bonus weapon swung by a level 50 player which produced a 28% block rate.

On Uthgard you get ~30% blockrate from supporters even with 35% bonus weapons.


I´d love to see the live logs btw.
There is no reason not to make them public.
It´s just a lot of unnecessary work to perform every test twice.

Blue wrote:

Disdain wrote:Question, why don't you just copy the parry formula with an additional 5% base chance (so classes without shield spec still block sometimes)? Both parry and block are defined by the same parameters...

Propably similar to our old formula which blocked too less and was therefore bugged. It doesn't solve anything. Sorry. The attackers is still not considered then.

Then something was wrong with how the formula was implemented, nothing is wrong with the formula itself. Parry works fine, you don't see people with 1 parry parrying 5+ hits in a row at level 50 and I played a character with high parry and some MoParry for a short while, noticing I parried a lot meaning scaling for parry spec works fine while it didn't for block spec for some reason.

As far as i remember Mythic changed the dex calculation for blocking anyway to adapt to the +26 overcap with toa so all your blocktests mean nothing if you downgrade to 1.69.

Also all classes that can't spec shield have a basic blockchance of 10% that is only modified by attacker level and quality/condition of their own shield and of course the mastery of block realm ability.

In Addition to the usual block formular it is also really needed to review guard. It's not even close to being livelike. Just go to Youtube and look for the "dem hibbies" video and have a look at the hero PoV and what he guards and at the amount of attackers and try to reproduce that on uthgard. I'm pretty sure his blockchance is close to 80% or something like that.
I think the major problem in guard is that you use the block calculator to calculate guard including all that stuff like shield size numbers of attackers.
Maybe a good question should be: If i play warrior and i use the realm ability "dashing defense" why do i block subjective at least 50% more of a single target as if i would just use guard on it?

If you are still using the very old DoL Guard mechanics that have been in there for as long as i remember DoL i would suggest you take a look into the yggdrasil source and see what they've changed since their guard worked very well compared to all freeshards that are out there including Uthgard.

To get back to the topic: the PvP blockchance on Mythics servers are capped @ 60% since 1.90 if i remember that right. So every blocktest won't give you the result you need to be able to block as you have been able to in 1.80 or maybe even 1.69.

Blue wrote:I have yet to see proper live tests which are not made by the staff itself.

Then I guess the three GMs I sent mine too simply ignored them. No answer, no information at all. Maybe it was not a "proper live test" in your opinion but I said that I'd start with a simple test, just to disprove Nayru's statements in one of the threads. I could've done many more but never received any feedback whatsoever. So if you really wanted your community to help you, you'd help them help you.

Kaete wrote:As far as i remember Mythic changed the dex calculation for blocking anyway to adapt to the +26 overcap with toa so all your blocktests mean nothing if you downgrade to 1.69.

Patch note? They just repeatedly lowered the block rate cap.

Kaete wrote:Also all classes that can't spec shield have a basic blockchance of 10% that is only modified by attacker level and quality/condition of their own shield and of course the mastery of block realm ability.

You say that. But its not the truth.

Kaete wrote:To get back to the topic: the PvP blockchance on Mythics servers are capped @ 60% since 1.90 if i remember that right. So every blocktest won't give you the result you need to be able to block as you have been able to in 1.80 or maybe even 1.69.

Doesn't matter as long as you don't reach the cap. Its possible to arrange the tests to prevent that.

ana wrote:

Blue wrote:I have yet to see proper live tests which are not made by the staff itself.

Then I guess the three GMs I sent mine too simply ignored them. No answer, no information at all. Maybe it was not a "proper live test" in your opinion but I said that I'd start with a simple test, just to disprove Nayru's statements in one of the threads. I could've done many more but never received any feedback whatsoever. So if you really wanted your community to help you, you'd help them help you.

If you want to cooperate in these tests you are welcome. You could also send your existing test results to me again and we will see.

Disdain wrote:Then something was wrong with how the formula was implemented, nothing is wrong with the formula itself. Parry works fine, you don't see people with 1 parry parrying 5+ hits in a row at level 50 and I played a character with high parry and some MoParry for a short while, noticing I parried a lot meaning scaling for parry spec works fine while it didn't for block spec for some reason.

Perhaps you don't remember but our old block rate formula caused shield users to block way too less. So the problem was the OPPOSITE of the current formula. They blocked way too less and using parry formula would be a rollback to our old formula. Nothing else.

The current formula for self blocking feels almost right. The only 2 things that bother me are :

a) supporter blockrate
b) guard

those are the 2 major things that have to be worked on.

block formula remains accurate as long as the person attacking has 0 weapon stat and is a support class. The more spec and stats you have and the higher your table, the more inaccurate it becomes.

Blue wrote:

Disdain wrote:Then something was wrong with how the formula was implemented, nothing is wrong with the formula itself. Parry works fine, you don't see people with 1 parry parrying 5+ hits in a row at level 50 and I played a character with high parry and some MoParry for a short while, noticing I parried a lot meaning scaling for parry spec works fine while it didn't for block spec for some reason.

Perhaps you don't remember but our old block rate formula caused shield users to block way too less. So the problem was the OPPOSITE of the current formula. They blocked way too less and using parry formula would be a rollback to our old formula. Nothing else.

How do you explain parry working just fine and block not working good enough if the same formula was used ? And yes I remember the old blockrates, I played a shield tank back then too.

Force wrote:block formula remains accurate as long as the person attacking has 0 weapon stat and is a support class. The more spec and stats you have and the higher your table, the more inaccurate it becomes.

Then we have to test explicitely influence variables of the attacker into block rate calculation to make that clear.

Disdain wrote:

Blue wrote:

Disdain wrote:Then something was wrong with how the formula was implemented, nothing is wrong with the formula itself. Parry works fine, you don't see people with 1 parry parrying 5+ hits in a row at level 50 and I played a character with high parry and some MoParry for a short while, noticing I parried a lot meaning scaling for parry spec works fine while it didn't for block spec for some reason.

Perhaps you don't remember but our old block rate formula caused shield users to block way too less. So the problem was the OPPOSITE of the current formula. They blocked way too less and using parry formula would be a rollback to our old formula. Nothing else.

How do you explain parry working just fine and block not working good enough if the same formula was used ? And yes I remember the old blockrates, I played a shield tank back then too.

I did not say it is working fine, I said I'm not aware of any problems of parry. And honestly parry is not block.

Blue wrote:
Then we have to test explicitely influence variables of the attacker into block rate calculation to make that clear.

Yes, I agree, I would just say defense rates instead of only block. Though obviously block is the biggest problem atm.